Exilian
Off-topic and Chatter: The Jolly Boar Inn => Fandom Discussion - The Secret Garden => General Chatter - The Boozer => A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones => Topic started by: Lady Grey on July 16, 2013, 09:52:33 PM
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This thread may be dark and full of spoilers! :P
So, if any other ASoIaF fans are interested, I thought it might be interesting to discuss the characters in the books/show. Anything about them really.
I thought I'd start with Joffrey Baratheon. On the Facebook page I admin, I put to the fans the question of why Joffrey is the way he is (you know, an idiot). I was surprised such a lot of them immediately put it down to the fact he was conceived in an incestous relationship.
I'd never really thought it to be that, I put it down to him not having a particularly good father, Robert never showed much interest in his 'son'. Also, the way he was conditioned to think that once he was King, he could have whatever he wanted, by his mother, Cersei.
Thoughts anyone? Any other characters people want to discuss? :)
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I think that Robert Baratheon's story is pretty damn tragic personally. While others say he is useless and fat, I only see him as a man fallen from grace and broken from lost love. The way he talks about Lyanna is almost heartbreaking at points, plus the fact he called her name while bedding Cersei. While, of course, he could have treated Cersei better, he can't be blamed for his actions really, it would take a truly strong person to stop themselves from doing anything Robert did. His regrets of becoming king are painful to read/watch, and when on his deathbed he admits his faults it reminds us he was once a strong young man, charismatic and popular, but fell after having to marry Cersei (whose plight is also pretty relatable).
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I agree, I don't think that the fact that he was conceived incestuously is exactly the problem (the others seem okay really). More nurture rather than nature in this case, I think. E.g. unchecked cruelty as a child, wanting attention of father who he sees killing.. and all that jazz..
It interesting that people seem to take incest as a one way ticket to an evil child.. I wonder if they actually think that about real people :/
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Hmmm... I can see what you mean about Robert having a tragic story, but I still don't think it condones him treating Cersei the way he did. If you believe in the same theory as I do as to who Jon Snow's parents are, Lyanna was never truly his anyway. He may have loved her, but it wasn't mutual. And of course that's upsetting for him, but I don't think it quite justifies him hitting Cersei, or sleeping around as much as he did. Does Ned not suggest somewhere in book 1 that even if he had Lyanna, he'd still have slept around? (Not sure).
I think Cersei had it worse than he did. She did love Robert, but soon realised he didn't feel the same about her. And yes, she can be a cruel character, but she is a stronger one by far than Robert if you ask me. She was essentially in the same position as Robert, but was treated terribly by him.
Yeah, I don't understand why people seem so quick to blame incest, when Tommen and Myrcella are perfectly normal. Joffrey was desperately seeking approval that he never got from his father. (I don't quite understand why Robert was such a terrible father either :/ ). As soon as he father's off the scene, he is King himself and can do 'whatever he wants'. (Or so he's been told by his mother). With this new power and him no longer feeling the need to prove himself, he goes off the rails.
I wonder as well whether there's something about Joffrey you can blame anything or anyone but himself for. As if there's some intrinsic cruelty in his personality. :/
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I almost had a breakdown in Season 3 Episode 8... or was it 9? I can't remember. All that death! It's just so tragic!
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I find that there's so much death and tragedy in ASoIaF, that I start questioning other series, wondering why they're so positive and happy xD
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Well, I do like that it's not all one sided.
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Every character, even the most minor ones, have more than one dimension. It's awesome.
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I agree, I love how it's gritty and realistic, I mean that I see people in, for example, the Harry Potter fandom saying how JKR killed off so many characters, and (as a fellow fan) still think, 'you know nothing!' :P
Each and every character is so well-written. I find it hard to totally like a character in the series, like there's something about every character I disagree with, I think that's a good thing, it's realistic.
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Now this is coming from someone who thoroughly enjoyed the first two books and the series too...
The killing off characters is getting old. :P
No, all jokes aside the characters I truly sympathise with all die, generally pretty horribly. I think it was around the Red Wedding that I just grew disillusioned with the whole thing. I gave up on the books aroun Storm of Swords and the show at a point not much later.
They are very well written, but other than Tyrion, there's really not many left I actually like. Plenty that I don't mind and many I find very interesting, but not many I actually like.
As to Joffrey, I agree with what was said regarding his upbringing being the cause of his problems, rather than his incestuous conception. What we know is that as a child he attempted to win his "father's" approval with violence (The cats. Was it cats?) and he was rebuffed for it. To Joffrey, he saw his "father" take what he wanted (The throne) with violence and so therefore decided that to emulate the man he admired, he had to do much the same. In essence, I think that when he attempted to win his father's approval with acts of cruelty, in essence, Joffrey was trying to appeal to what he saw and had heard of his father, a mighty warrior who took what he wanted by force.
As to Cersei, I have very little sympathy for her. And I only have a little more for Robert Baratheon. I would explain my reasons, but it is really late over here, so good night. :P
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^ must be honest, i have the complete same problem.
I can no longer watch the show due to the violence (long story) and there's other things that basically mean the series has got on my nerves.
I still love some of the characters (as in, find them interesting, not necessarily like them) and the books are well written, but, meh. :/
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(http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2014/118/7/0/leave_hodor_alone__by_jamesbousema-d7gcoga.jpg)
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(http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2014/118/7/0/leave_hodor_alone__by_jamesbousema-d7gcoga.jpg)
...This...
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Moved.
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Hodor.
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hodor
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Hodor is love, Hodor is life...
(http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/147430.jpg)
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but not many I actually like.
I am a huge fan of the show. I agree killing off characters can get old, but i feel that's the completeness of a story arc to make you care about characters who you know may eventually die in such a harsh world. There are still many characters i like, Tywin and Jaime have always been my favourites along with Stannis the mannis the rightful king once he gets rid of the red woman. The Martells who are being introduced in season 5 are also rather cool characters and Pedro Pascal did such amazing work with Oberyn.
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See that's the thing, I quite liked Oberyn.
I also liked Eddard and Robb Stark...
Tyrion is just about the only one left that I actually like, and it's all gone to the armadillohouse for him anyway.
Also pretty fond of Brynden Tully. So he'll probably die in the next book.
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I like Hodor.
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Also pretty fond of Brynden Tully. So he'll probably die in the next book.
I have a theory of where Brynden Tully is in the books and believe he will be important very soon. My theory is he is on the heels of Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover. Heading towards one of the most important un-introduced characters.
Everyone loves Hodor! But horrible news......no hodor in season 5........... :'(
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portugal it, not watching.