Author Topic: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?  (Read 1302 times)

Flamekebab

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New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« on: January 28, 2016, 07:01:11 PM »

Now I don't know about you but back when I got into this hobby the main introductory kit was a fairly crap paint set with a few very basic models and several colours that were never used again.


Also by the way pricing has gone GW have pretty much cut out the pocket money crowd. It seems like they're finally thinking about new introductory routes though and this makes me breathe easy. As much as I dislike GW it's mostly because I've watched them become a company that succeeds despite itself. They've had enough momentum to keep on going through all the horrid decisions they've made but that kind of strategy isn't sustainable.


Maybe they're actually doing something right at long last? (From here.)



Wordy bits:


Thoughts?

Clockwork

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2016, 07:35:49 PM »
Honestly I still think £10 for a space marine bike is too much, I remember when a box of 3 bikes were £15. However it does look like the new kits are well made as the rest of GW miniatures are and it's nice that they included everything you'll need to create them.


EDIT: armadillo, that was like 14 years ago, guess a 100% increase in price over 14 years doesn't seem so terrible then.
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Jubal

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2016, 09:03:44 PM »
Hmm. Yeah, I'd be reluctant to pay a tenner for a plastic bike kit, compared to the prices I can get on as nice or nicer stuff from smaller retailers. Undoubtedly prices are ratcheting upwards though and I feel like they're doing it faster than the incomes of some of the consumer base. I guess enough people are making enough money for business still to work, but it makes me sad to think that there are more people likely to be cut out of a hobby I really love.

All that said, yes, starter kits are sensible and good news - especially if they're pushing the focus back onto small scale and skirmish games that allow the use of small forces. I feel like GW made a mistake in plugging huge-army games too heavily, you need smaller and skirmish games available to draw in new people and get them participating on a sensible budget.
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Flamekebab

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2016, 10:24:36 PM »
Hmm. Yeah, I'd be reluctant to pay a tenner for a plastic bike kit, compared to the prices I can get on as nice or nicer stuff from smaller retailers. Undoubtedly prices are ratcheting upwards though and I feel like they're doing it faster than the incomes of some of the consumer base. I guess enough people are making enough money for business still to work, but it makes me sad to think that there are more people likely to be cut out of a hobby I really love.
Ten quid for a decent multipart model, glue, brush, and paints is too steep for you?

When I got into this in 1998 it was that much for a paint set and some models. The difference being that the paints were bigger (but mostly useless colours) and the models were trash. Monopose marines or Lizardmen!

For context £10 now would have been ~£6 back then. A single bike kit cost £5 and didn't come with the paint, brush, or glue. When we look at model pricing we don't tend to factor in inflation from what I can tell. Some things have got more expensive but others have got cheaper. The bigger issue is point creep but I'll get into that in a moment.

Here's some numbers based on those in an old copy of White Dwarf:
  • A Falcon Grav Tank was £17 in October 1997 when it was new (£28.51), it's £31 now.
  • A squad of five SM Terminators was £15 (£25.16) then, it's £28 now.
  • A SM Landspeeder was £20 (£33.54), it's £18.50 now.
  • SM Razorback £20 (£33.54), £25 now.
  • SM Whirlwind £20 (£33.54), £35 now (which would be £21.37 back then).
  • Eldar Vyper Jetbike - £12 (£20.13), £18.50 now.
  • Eldar Jetbike - £5 (£8.39), £8.33 now (set of 3 for £25).
All that said, yes, starter kits are sensible and good news - especially if they're pushing the focus back onto small scale and skirmish games that allow the use of small forces. I feel like GW made a mistake in plugging huge-army games too heavily, you need smaller and skirmish games available to draw in new people and get them participating on a sensible budget.
I'm hesitant about their steps back into "specialist games" but encouraging smaller points games would definitely be encouraged. The cost per model in terms of points has gone down significantly over the last twenty years while the army sizes have grown massively.

A third edition Ork boy cost 9 points. They now cost 6 points a head. Ouch.

Edit: Updated the numbers
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 11:20:16 PM by Flamekebab »

Jubal

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 11:05:16 PM »
I guess I wasn't factoring the glue/brush/paints into it, but I'd tend to get those separately - I'm probably unusual in this, but even before I started gaming those sorts of things I could have found around the house anyway.

I will also admit that for GW's uses, their models tend to be too nice for what I want. I will freely acknowledge that I'm not a good painter, and for my rank and file for building a full army I actually kind of want models that are simpler and have bigger areas that I can do in a single colour etc. Broadly speaking I often found that older models were better for that, the newer plastics tended to be more high detail and more finicky to paint, which I'm prepared to do for a skirmish warband or for my heroes but not for the grunts so much.

And I take your point on inflation - the counter-issue is to what extent people's incomes have kept pace with inflation (which they broadly have done since the mid 1990s, but many haven't done from, say, 2008-present, which is about the period over which I've been paying any attention to developments in wargaming). Were the 1990s models plastic multiparts like the modern ones? I know fantasy far better than 40K and all my warmachines for that were still metal when I started gaming.

Agreed on the point creep issue, entirely. Don't know about specialist games as a whole, but some better WHFB skirmish rules being available would be no bad thing (I'd even support bringing back Mordheim, but then again I think that Mordheim is probably the best GW game I've played so that's hardly a shock).
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Flamekebab

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 11:28:42 PM »
Edit: What the hell, WYSIWYG editor?! It's really messing up the formatting. Randomly changing the font to Verdana and setting the font size to something utterly miniscule. Ugh!

I'm probably unusual in this, but even before I started gaming those sorts of things I could have found around the house anyway.
I very much doubt most kids have acrylic paint designed for plastic, polycement, and fine brushes just lying around (yeah, we don't have a good laughing emoticon).

Were the 1990s models plastic multiparts like the modern ones? I know fantasy far better than 40K and all my warmachines for that were still metal when I started gaming.
That depends on the models. Of the ones in the list I think most were plastic or at least predominantly plastic. I'm afraid I can't speak for WFB because other than Warhammer Necromunda (Mordheim) I have zero interest in fantasy and so never paid attention to those models. They're also not as readily available any more so it's difficult to make the comparison.

The Eldar vehicles are the same models (to the best of my knowledge). I'm not sure when the old metal Landspeeder was replaced by the plastic one but it was around that time. The terminators may have still been multi-part metal. I'm not really sure what difference the material makes though (other than the fact that metal is a massive pain in the backside to work with!).

some better WHFB skirmish rules being available would be no bad thing
Isn't that exactly what Age of Sigmar was? I've not paid attention to AoS but I was under the impression that it was smaller scale.

Jubal

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2016, 11:37:08 PM »
Yeah, my lot were probably just more into crafts than most I guess.

I'd presume that there's a cost differential in production - the impression I had (which may be wrong) is that producing plastic GW sprues on an industrial scale is a lot cheaper, though the initial outlays on the moulds are far larger because they're done with various computer shenanigans nowadays, whereas metal has lower mould outlays (hence why most smaller mini companies use it, or a mix of it and resins) but larger continued production costs.

I wouldn't know about AoS - I've not managed to get to a GW since they released it!
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Flamekebab

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 02:02:00 AM »
Small companies still use metal? I thought most dropped it when the price of metal skyrocketed a little while ago (five years ago?). I'm fairly sure Hasslefree still use metal but I've always wondered why!

The computer shenanigans aren't the pricy bit from what I understand. Making moulds for injection moulding has always been expensive up front though as you said. It seems that these days their sales expectations are a lot higher than they were in the old days and so resin or metal just aren't worth bothering with. ForgeWorld has lower sales presumably and so use resin (although from what I've seen their casting is pretty shoddy!).

The Age of Sigmar rules are free and available online here. I think. Chances are you'll click the link and find that I'm completely wrong but I'm tired and it's late so I'm sorry for not doing more research in advance  ;D

Also sorry if I'm being a grumpy git. I think I'm just having a bit of a bad day. Someone just hassled me about WYSIWYG and that always leaves a bitter taste in my mind. If you ain't got the model you can't field it!  >:(

Clockwork

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 03:21:00 AM »
Age of Sigmar looks pretty great actually.
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Jubal

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Re: New introductory kits from Games Workshop, eh?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 11:50:03 AM »
It's not just Hasslefree by any means - the guys I get my DW minis from use metal, World of Twilight minis are all still cast in metal, Heresy use metal for most things IIRC. My impression is that have been some moves towards resin, especially for multiparts and war machines and suchlike (which I tend to buy less of), but by and large if I went shopping for models for the things I do I'd probably still expect to buy metal more than anything else.

Having read the AoS rules, I think the idea appears to be flexible army sizes, certainly it seems to be much easier to play with small forces than later WHFB editions, but they do start by giving an example of a hundred-models-a-side battle for their time estimate. It does look a neat little rule-set though - apparently the individual unit rules are a bit quirky (for the backdated units at least). If I was going to start it I'd want to wait a while then start a new army once they're a few years in and the fluff is a bit better shaped.

Hm, the "can you play with models you don't own" is possibly a topic for another thread, that one can get heated :P
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