Art, Writing, and Learning: The Clerisy Quarter > Discussion and Debate - The Philosopher's Plaza
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dubsartur:
Yes, I edited the OP and added the example of "if the Navaho say please don't make Navaho-style art with swastikas, a polite person listens."
I think you are implying the connection with the idea that states have claim to everything found on their territory (so eg. the state of France claims the right to prevent the exports of a painting by a medieval Florentine with no known connection to the kingdom of France, or the state of Turkey claims rights to things made by ancient Ionians and Dorians and Luwians thousands of years before there were any Turks on Turkish soil).
Another thing that does not do well on the Internet is the difference between "actions which can reasonably end friendly relations between two people" and "actions which the surrounding society should intervene to punish." If someone publishes a sacred story which the person who told it did not want shared, that's not something that the state or strangers should interfere with, but its definitely something which could reasonably end the relationship between teacher and student.
Pentagathus:
--- Quote from: dubsartur on January 23, 2023, 12:50:31 AM ---or the state of Turkey claims rights to things made by ancient Ionians and Dorians and Luwians thousands of years before there were any Turks on Turkish soil
--- End quote ---
Well tbf, who else would?
Jubal:
--- Quote ---If someone publishes a sacred story which the person who told it did not want shared, that's not something that the state or strangers should interfere with, but its definitely something which could reasonably end the relationship between teacher and student.
--- End quote ---
I think I agree it's not something the state should interfere with, but I think consent over information given is pretty vital in humanities research (assuming that's the framework we're in here). So I don't think this particular example is necessarily solely between those two people - it could validly also be a matter for an employer, in that IMV republishing anything you were told with the understanding that you wouldn't publish it is very bad data ethics. That's prima facie a harm to the person whose material was published without consent and can reflect on and be an issue for institutions and other researchers (if everyone knows my institution employs people who publish culturally sensitive material without consent, that could impede my ability to get the trust and agreements I need to do my own fieldwork). This doesn't necessarily mean firing people or anything, depending on the exact details of the case, but I think there is a valid space for ethical standards to be upheld by professional bodies formally even in some areas that wouldn't merit state intervention. But I agree with the overall point that there are different appropriate levels and responses and the internet often flattens them out.
Regarding Turkey etc: I think Pentagathus sort of has a point, in that I think all governments ought to have a responsibility for antiquities in the area they administer... but the moral claims made on them are awkward in the frame of states that understand themselves in very ethnic-nationalist ways (which is to say, most states). A lot of Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Georgians, etc might dispute the idea that pre-Turk Anatolia can be lumped into "the history of Turkey" in a neat way, precisely because Turkey very much acts not just as a state that embraces all those pasts but as one that is the state of Turks to the exclusion of other peoples in the region.
dubsartur:
The case I was thinking was one in which a thinky talky blogger was known for using race-and-IQ language and having people like Steve Sailer in his comments section and blogroll. When this came to the attention of the Old Media, and the blogger's friends were angrily denying that he had anything to do with scientific racism and just had a liberal comments policy, a former Internet acquaintance of the blogger shared a long email where the blogger tried to convert him to neoreaction (a group of understimulated far rightists who spend a lot of time on the Internet and social media) and 'human biodiversity' (sic). The blogger had asked that the email not be shared (but asked in the same email where he tried to convert the acquaintance).
dubsartur:
--- Quote from: Pentagathus on January 23, 2023, 11:46:56 AM ---Well tbf, who else would?
--- End quote ---
There are lots of people from outside the region who do Mediterranean archaeology and Precolumbian archaeology of complex societies. The history of this is tied up with colonialism, but it also means that a lot more interesting archaeology is done in Greece than say Sweden, because not just local but foreign money and labour are available. Distributing less exciting finds around the world also makes them available to more people, provides protection against local disasters or aniconistic violence, and limits the power of any one government to shape how they are studied.
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