As I write this, news incoming that rebel fighters have entered Tripoli from the west, rebels have risen up in the east of the city as well and Gadaffi's aides seem to rapidly being arrested or are deserting. It's likely he still has a lot of fighters left, but nobody knows how many.
This appears to be the crunch point...
The rebels have gotta win, if anything just by sheer numbers. It seems that once any one group is beaten back another few just pop out of no where.
Wonder what will happen after this has all blown over?
Quote from: CN2 on August 21, 2011, 07:17:38 PM
The rebels have gotta win, if anything just by sheer numbers. It seems that once any one group is beaten back another few just pop out of no where.
Wonder what will happen after this has all blown over?
Lybia implodes into warring factions maybe, they mentioned something on the news about tension building between tribes, I don't know.
Hopefully this doesn't lead to Portugal exploding. (Who am I kidding of course Portugal will explode. Which means hooray - the Portugese can work further to restore their economic base!)
I'm personally doubtful of the warring tribes theory, particularly since people from Gadaffi's own tribe are now defecting from the regime.
Also...
2146: Al-Jazeera TV is reporting that Col Muammar Gaddafi's personal security team have surrendered and disarmed.
I thought the rebels had died out! You know, you guys are my only source of info :P
For a moment there, when Jubal said warring tribes I was reminded of the Egipt thread.
So guys, anyone want to see Lybians in an RTW mod? How do you reckon they would go? :P
In all seriousness, their economy has got to be shot after all this.
Spoiler
CG is correct, Portugal's gonna explode very soon indeed.
Debux, it is now officially your personal mission to establish a decent news outlet in Chile. I mean, seriously.
Anyways, Gadaffi's compound is being assaulted as I type. Fighting still very heavy.
You mean, Gandalffi?
(http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/65077/1299677835/Gandalfi.jpg)
That is far funnier than it has any right to be.
Does this make the rebel army a Balrog?
Finding Gadaffi would be so much easier if he wore something obvious - a red and white stripy bobble hat and jumper, perhaps?
Rebel steals Gaddafi's hat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhoGNlWsObg)
Aside from the funniness of this, I was very impressed with this rebel's composure in this moment of high emotion. He reaches out to Gaddafi's supporters to unite with them to make a "new beginning", and talks only of a desire for "fair trial" and "justice" for Gaddafi.
If it's people like this at the forefront of this rebellion, I have high hopes for Libya's future after this affair is concluded.
The humanitarian situation looks difficult - the real tests for the rebels are only just beginning, I fear. And Sirte still stands.
A deadline has been set, Sirte has been encircled. Tighter draws the noose.
A deadline for what, exactly?
Gadaffi forces have been given until Saturday (the end of the islamic feast of Eid) to surrender before rebel forces advance on their three remaining strongholds (Sabha, Sirte, and some other one I've forgotten the name of).
Ah, I see. Well, it would be nice if they did surrender, but I doubt they will. Anyone loyal to Gaddafi is probably loyal for a reason.
A lot of people are having their worldview shattered by this war. Gadaffi's support is partially based on belief in his invincibility...
I also refer to Justin-meme for further comment...
Spoiler
(http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9699908.jpg)
Did he really say that?
This is what I should do, and do right, not like some pansy LA dweller.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44359943/ns/world_news-christian_science_monitor/?GT1=43001
Looks like it's mostly over, a load of mercenaries and troops have buggered off into Niger, and the remaining Gadaffi strongholds are surrounded.
Hopefully they brought some towers and/or ladders for the strongholds.
Gadamaffi must be in bad shape if he's resorted to hiring Libyan Mercs. :P
Quote from: comrade_general on September 06, 2011, 10:30:12 PM
Hopefully they brought some towers and/or ladders for the strongholds.
Gadamaffi must be in bad shape if he's resorted to hiring Libyan Mercs. :P
For this post you may have three internets.
Woo! Internets accepted. ;D
So what news from the front, Jub? (since you're the only one who's paying any attention to this)
Yep, the war is nearly over, but now they just have to keep the people sweet for 20 months until the first elections.
Assault on Bani Walid failed today, the one on Sirte appears to be moving still though.
Jufra and Sabha haven't really been touched, they're pretty isolated anyway.
Well it seams that there was not exactly a civil war in Lybia. Someone coul call it more a NATO operation supported by an amount of Lybians against the dictatorial regime put on them. They couldn't do that by themselves not due to weapons, due to lack of democratic consiousness in the majority of those poor people... :-\
How can cities act as defences of a dictator? That means he has some support, either tribal or political. Tribe is a form of society more or less... :o
I'd disagree, I would put it down to weapons not democratic conciousness. Gadaffi had the money and guns to destroy as much of his population as was necessary to maintain control: large scale protests CAN be destroyed by firepower, it's a sad reality (Tianamen Square being a particularly good example, or the Prague Spring, or the poor people in Bahrain). Also, to call it just a NATO operation is really very insulting to the Libyans. NATO shouldered none of the "hard work" of ground fighting and taking the towns, the Misratans and the Berbers from the hills fought incredibly effectively given their lack of training and I think it's important to remember that.
As to the remaining cities: if you see the messages from people who've fled the fighting, Dimos, most of them didn't actually know what was going on. In Sirte the people haven't been told that Tripoli has fallen. Even so most of them are being prevented from escaping by Gadaffi's fighters.
...so a few people are loyal, but it's not on a tribal basis. It's essentially a few military brigades who believe that there is nothing left for them in a new democratic Libya.
You have good points lad and I agree with you in most of it.
You know after the spring of prague the Communist regime of Czehoslovakia fell -yes I know this hapenned many years after- the same will happen everywhere, that's inevitable all regimes fall and new ones rise in their place, nothing is forever.
My Critical difference is that your western -and mine; we gave bases and 3 radar-planes- are not legalized by the call of a part of the Lybian society even if that part is in mortal danger, even if it is the majority.
Everyone who puts his head in the food of the chickens he is eaten by them, a greek saying goes. Other states will take advantage of our civil wars and fights if we do that to other, weaker states. I hope and I believe that humanity will experience the day that Tian an Men Square will be named ''Square of Change'' and the ''Martyrs' Square'' of Tripolis will be named a ''yellow'' or ''red'' or ''turquise'' square.
Besides the White Tower of Thessaloniki was once called ''Tower of Blood'' and the London Tower prison was initialy a palace.
Ta panta rhei.
and to clarify my views.
Your state once was not even united.
Ancient Athens was detmocratic. Roman Athens was self-governed by democratic regime for its internal afairs. Late Roman and Byzantine Athens was a small village with no significance or glory. Then Athens was raped and it had many monuments stolen by Europeans by aprooval of the Ottoman Empire. Then Athens became the second capital of free Greece, under a republican regime. During 1936-1940 it was under portugaling-fascist rule, then it fell to those German Nazionalists, during 1967-1975 it was again under dictatorial rule. Then again it was a free republic with a social face, and now it's under Troikan and IMF occupation, and my worries is it will be for much time.
How a symbol of true democracy can become Tyrranical and Totalitarian.
Athens= Democracy[Perikles] . Oligarchy [30 Tyrrants, Peloponesian war ect] . Imperial City/Town/Village [Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman], Monarchy and constitutional monarcy [1831] , Republican , fascist [1936-1944 and 1967-1975] , Republican again, and now it's IMF a new kind of state form... Same happens to all states. Nothing stays forever unchanged
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15055109
Over 1200 found in a mass grave. Utterly appalling.
Now we see without question why he is Gaddamaffi.
Quote from: Jubal on September 25, 2011, 10:26:41 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15055109
Over 1200 found in a mass grave. Utterly appalling.
That's what dictators do to survive. Thales was asked ''what is strange?'' and he replied ''an old Tyrrant!'' . Lybians just woke up which means it used to be normal for them to get killed and abused by a non-liberal regime.
This man started as a Muslim-socialist though... If the society lacks democratic spirit and free minds, that's what happens... I'll tell you a joke that speaks about that in msn, Jubal...
I don't think Gadaffi was ever really either socialist or muslim in his personal views. He put on the face he needed when it suited him.
AND IT'S GOODBYE FROM HIM.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15389550
QuoteLibya's ex-leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has been killed after an assault on his home town of Sirte, the transitional authority's acting prime minister says.
Mahmoud Jibril told a news conference in Tripoli it was time to launch a new, united Libya.
Video footage has been broadcast around the world showing a battered body claimed to be that of Col Gaddafi.
He was toppled in August after 42 years in power. The International Criminal Court has been seeking his arrest.
As I wrote elsewhere:
While I don't approve of revenge killings or murder as justice, I think this turn of events is perhaps for the best. Gaddafi's Libya is gone, and so is Gaddafi. The country can now move forward without a long, drawn-out trial looking to the past, and without him still hanging around like a ghost at their shoulder. There's no place for him now.
Awesome 8)
So who's next? Kim Jong-il?
Not until he's got me my money.
The headline: Nightangel Urges Kim Jong-il To Produce Owed Funds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=UitB5YsCHYw)
He's dead, regime over. Time for Democracy. Even if the scenes from his death and torture where violent, they represented decades of opression and social stress...
Let us hope for a true change. Let the Lybian Republic be Democratic in its views and it will not become a regime...