Rumoured models:
QuoteOrcCrusher / Tunneler (combo kit)
Runic Anvil / War Altar (combo box)
Gyrocopter Squadron Box
Thunderers / Crossbowmen / Dwarf Warriors Box (10)
Hammerers / Ironbreaker Box
Slayers / Brotherhood of Grimmir Box
Longbeards / Rangers Box
QuoteThere is a guy called Maelström who is the one that brings the rumours, dunno from where. He speaks about some changes in the dwarfs army play system.
- There will be more magic activity and movement than before (something everybody expect).
- The runes system is going to be like now but with some changes in the "laws". Some of them are going to reduce their point cost and there will be less options. Basically are going to be created magic items, some people speak about add runes into already existing magic items from rulebook... with some blacksmith skill...
- Runelords will have some changes, they will have innate spells (like empire warrior priests). And the anvil will make those spells stronger.
- Rune combos in warmachines are going to suffer nerfs. There will be a cost point reduction but also the destruction capacity will be decreased (except for the organ cannon, that will become a nightmare...)
- Points cost reduction in infantry.
- They speak about robot/rock golems similars to Blackrock Deeps in world of warcraft:
P.D: sorry for my english, if you don't understand something just tell me and I will try to explain it other way or better...
However this guy Maelström has low credibility.
Take these rumors with a shovel of salt.
Golems I could sort of get behind. The rest mostly a big no.
War altar? WE DO NOT NEED MORE D**N WAR ALTARS!
The OrcCrusher/Tunneler I'm dubious about as well.
I'm not a huge fan of dwarves and I hate their current play style, but I like the ironbrakers, thunderers, slayers and cannons/grudge throwers.
Those right there are iconic dwarf units.
But I still can't see any changes in dwarf tactics.
What do you dislike about the current playstyle? Just tendency to gunline?
Deploy in the corner, don't move during the whole course of the game and shoot.
By far the most boring army I've ever encountered.
I suspect you were just up against pretty boring players. I generally found other strategies far more effective, certainly at 2000pt plus battles.
One bloke on Warseer had a very good alteration where he assigned Dwarf units a Special Rule, either Hammer or Anvil.
Hammer untis could counter charge for Anvil units much like the Imperial Detachments, and the Anvil units got a flat +1 Armour Save.
I tested it out with a few mates and we all agreed that it actually helped make Dwarves a bit more manoueverable as the Dwarf player kept moving units to set up those counter charges and trying to force the enemy to hit his Anvils rather than his Hammers. Invariably, they were good games too.
Anyway, I agree on the no more damned war altars line, and express some trepidation as to the Orc Crusher thing. Reckon it's going to something like a Deathroller? :P Maybe with big, steam powered hammers?
(http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=185769&d=1390397889)
New plastic character (dwarf lord) and Longbeards are certain.
Ok, here they are:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/Rr2Rw5l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nxKZkxP.jpg)
The slayer looks great, but the hammerers are bad.
They look like anime characters.
And I was looking forward to see some nice dwarf miniatures.
GW just can't get the dwarfs right.
The slayer's a nice model but I don't like the pose, the angle he's bouncing around at looks silly. As a side note I do think that slayers should get to wear shoes, not doing so on a battlefield is pretty stupid unless you're an Ogre/Halfling/Other thing with really leathery feet.
The Hammerers are alright conceptually, they've just overdone all the ornamentation etc as usual and made them look a bit too like walking tanks rather than soldiers.
Quote from: Jubal on January 25, 2014, 02:34:03 PM
The Hammerers are alright conceptually, they've just overdone all the ornamentation etc as usual and made them look a bit too like walking tanks rather than soldiers.
Oh, no, I actually love that part.
I've always liked the idea of dwarves being armored like tanks.
I just don't like the helmets and hammers.
Maybe ironbreakers will look better...
Helmets I'm fine with; I agree on the hammers, they look silly.
Quote1-2-2014 preorder
8-2-2014: release:
Belegar: 17 euros
Demonslayer:17 euros
Hammerers/Longbeards: 40 euros
no dwarven army book in this first release.
QuoteAs a side note I do think that slayers should get to wear shoes, not doing so on a battlefield is pretty stupid unless you're an Ogre/Halfling/Other thing with really leathery feet.
Unless you're a woad raider ;) . I think the Hammerers look good in all but the helmets, its like a cleric hat or something, and personally i like the slayers no shoe thing. It makes him seem more brutal, too berserk to care about his feet. Plus hes a dwarf so maybe they've got an all over hobbit foot or something :D .
Quote from: Death Nade on January 28, 2014, 12:19:07 AM
It makes him seem more brutal, too berserk to care about his feet.
I agree. They're though and suicidal.
I agree about the hats... They don't fit into my idea of dwarves. They're kind of simple and the ornamentations don't fit in. The middle guy's helmet looks fine, though. And their faces look underwhelming (perhaps it's the paint job, but I doubt that).
I don't know if you've noticed, but the chainmail they wear looks incredibly detailed...
Yeah, the ornamentation should be more angular maybe?
Yes, that's what I was thinking...
Longbeards, on the other hand, look awesome:
(http://i.imgur.com/FvEKpmw.jpg)
I think the shoulder-pads may be a bit big, they look like they'd restrict movement too much given the Dwarfs all use axes/slashing weapons. Other than that, yes, looking very good. :)
More pictures:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/KrLNqT4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xbK33uk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/L16xyTF.jpg)
Also this is what the Hammerers would look like if you used dwarf warrior face masks on them:
Spoiler
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/580/hdoj.jpg)
QuoteI don't know if you've noticed, but the chainmail they wear looks incredibly detailed...
Yeah the armour all looks great. Nothing like a tank on two feet wielding a nice big hammer, at least they did that bit right :P
Even more pictures:
Spoiler
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/q71/s720x720/1601560_10152159370393771_19850939_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1/q72/1779781_10152159369568771_558113092_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/q71/1622679_10152159369703771_1730956414_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/q71/7536_10152159369573771_383538058_n.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/q71/971651_10152159369628771_2003769277_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/q71/1797556_10152159369713771_882310530_n.jpg)
I'm coming more into agreement with SW on the Hammerers' helmets, the ornamentation looks odd.
Also I reaffirm my point that the shoulder pads are far too bulky on several of these.
I'm kind of starting to like Hammerers...
That helmet decoration still bothers me, but after seeing that Photoshop manipulation with the current dwarf warrior masks I actually think that they look pretty awesome overall.
Again, agreed. Just needed smaller heads on the hammers and a more dwarfy helmet decoration.
But what about Ironbreakers?
It looks like the Longbeards they have taken their role.
QuoteLongbeards and hammrers are designed by Martin Footit and Samir Battistotti. Some information about the sprue. There are 5 different hammers for the hammerers, and 6 different shields for longbeards. They did the helms of the hammers flat on the top to resemble an anvil. The bodies are divided in two pieces: front and rear. Then there are heads and arms. So it's easy to assemble the hammerers with the heads of the longbeards if you don't like their helms.
(http://s27.postimg.org/b2ufvhcf7/roccaforte.jpg)
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/NecronLeaks/IMG_0382.jpg)
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/NecronLeaks/IMG_0383.jpg)
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/NecronLeaks/IMG_0379.jpg)
(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/NecronLeaks/IMG_0385.jpg)
Belegar looks pretty solid, though for an inf special character lord I'd have preferred something more in terms of leadership/nearby troop boost rather than a standard duelling character. WS8 and effective S5 are worth having, though I suspect he'd be better off wasting enemy infantry in a lot of cases than trying to tackle big gribblies.
Don't forget ASF and a 4+ ward save, immunity to both ordinary killing blow and heroic killing blow.
If you ask me, he is perfect for mashing wight kings, grave guard, black knights, tomb guards and DE executioners and assassins. Basically any unit which depends on killing blow (executioners are a bit more capable on their own, but they still won't attack first and won't get their re-rolls).
Surely executioners will still attack first, as if both are ASF it'll go back to initiative order?
And yes, agreed, but those are from only three factions out of like fifteen - and that roughly fits with my idea, he can waste fairly elite enemy infantry, I'd be more cautious about whether he could reliably damage, say, a dragon.
Quote from: Jubal on January 31, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
Surely executioners will still attack first, as if both are ASF it'll go back to initiative order?
Nope, when both units have ASF they strike at the same time, ignoring the initiative order.
Besides, they have great weapons which give them ASL.
Quote from: Jubal on January 31, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
And yes, agreed, but those are from only three factions out of like fifteen - and that roughly fits with my idea, he can waste fairly elite enemy infantry, I'd be more cautious about whether he could reliably damage, say, a dragon.
Rock, paper, scissors, as always. ;)
QuoteApparently this are the armywide rules, from Belegar's rules on the kindle version (of the white dwarf I assume):
It's basically 3 rules:
Ancestral grudge, roll a D6 before the first turn. On 1-2 your general hates the enemy's general. On 3-4 your characters hate all enemy characters. On 5-6 your army hates the entire enemy army.
Resolute, charging units have +1 strength
Relentless, cannot be marchblocked.
Also, some of the dwarves have been released today.
And as I feared, it seems like Ironbreakers are gone with Longbeards taking their place (since now it seems that they have Gromril armour).
It's a damn shame. Ironbreakers were the most iconic dwarf unit, if you ask me...
Damn, that's disappointing, and yes - I will never forget the day my Ironbreaker champion took down Vlad Von Carstein (I genuinely armadillo you not) in single combat. No more. *sniff* :(
The new Ancestral Grudge a) sounds over the top and b) sounds like Dwarfs no longer have anything to show for the old Greenskin hatred which is pretty stupid. Relentless is same as always, not sure what I think about Resolute - it definitely looks like they're trying to make Dwarfs a more aggressive combat force, and I worry they'll overdo it so one literally can't play them without mostly investing in movement boosting items/kit like the anvil of doom (if that even still exists).
Quote from: Jubal on February 01, 2014, 12:43:51 PM
Damn, that's disappointing, and yes - I will never forget the day my Ironbreaker champion took down Vlad Von Carstein (I genuinely armadillo you not) in single combat. No more. *sniff* :(
That's awesome. :D
But my assumption might be wrong...
It is rumored (unconfirmed) that Ironbreakers will share a kit with Irondragons(eh?).
And on the site they say that Longbeards and Hammerers wear heavy dwarf mail, even though it looks like Gromril armour.
So there's hope after all. :D
Quote from: Jubal on February 01, 2014, 12:43:51 PM
The new Ancestral Grudge a) sounds over the top and b) sounds like Dwarfs no longer have anything to show for the old Greenskin hatred which is pretty stupid. Relentless is same as always, not sure what I think about Resolute - it definitely looks like they're trying to make Dwarfs a more aggressive combat force, and I worry they'll overdo it so one literally can't play them without mostly investing in movement boosting items/kit like the anvil of doom (if that even still exists).
My thoughts exactly.
Heavy Dwarf Mail just == heavy armour, or will there be a new rule there?
Just ordinary heavy armour.
I guessed that would be the case - anything else would've been hellishly complex.
Book cover.
(http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=186543&d=1391435186)
QuoteSo, I don't know if this has been discussed already, but a LGS near me was accidentally selling next week's White Dwarf early. The Dwarfs have a Gyrobomber coming, this kit also makes a new Gyrocopter. They are also getting a new Runelord, and Engineer Character, and the next White Dwarf has a picture of the new Dwarf Army Book. Also, if you look closely, you can see new Dwarf Ironbreakers. This new Ironbreakers kit also looks like it builds some kind of blunderbuss wielding shooting unit. This blunderbuss carrying unit might also have the option to build some kind of flamethrower gun, I'm not sure.
In review:
New Gyrobomber/Gyrocopter kit.
Engineer Character.
New Runelord.
Grainy pictures in next White Dwarf of new Ironbreakers, and it seems this kit also builds new ranged unit with large gun or blunderbuss option and possible flamethrower option.
Quote
Pre-orders 8th; release 15th:
Warhammer: Dwarfs 30£
Gyrocopter/Gyrobomber 28£
Runelord 13£
Grimm Burlockson (new engineer SC) 13£
Guessing Irondragons are an elite shooting unit then.
Basically cribbing the old Chaos Dwarf blunderbuss unit, I imagine...
And here's the second wave:
http://plastickrak.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/new-dwarf-pictures-leaked-gyrocopters.html
Too many smooth curves on that Gyrocopter, it looks very 1960s rather than actually fantasy.
Also generally I don't like character models with random bits sprouting up from their backs, though ohter than that Burlockson looks OK.
I find the whole release horrible.
Dwarves now look like growth-stunted spehss mahrines.
Hammerers, longbeards and ironbreakers look acceptable and do have a lot of detail. However, the difference between longbeards and ironbreakers is marginal and I can't really tell them apart. Except for the few parts of their helmets and icons on their shields they look the same. Ironbreakers no longer look like true dwarven elite. They're somehow redundant, design-wise. And that's really sad.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G7IA_ute79c/UvY10WLiq6I/AAAAAAAAC64/Vu3LoP85aU0/s1600/Bf9JhccIgAAl-OP.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6m7tRMa-4ec/UvY1ymq8_pI/AAAAAAAAC6o/hN5MCJ4kHas/s1600/Bf9JddzIQAA_0mn.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y158/aussiedwarf/thane.png)
(http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/gallerypics/gallery/album_976/gallery_13785_976_83561.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/870x652q90/833/fgbf.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/870x652q90/199/9jfw.jpg)
Wrong on so many levels, IMO.
Oh gods the Irondrakes why just why what the I don't even argh.
A wall of text concerning rules:
QuoteThe Gyrocopter is a Special choice, and you can take up to 6. They are not squadrons; there's just a little note that says you can take six of them.
The Gyrobomber is a Rare choice.
Rangers are, in fact, a Rare choice, as well.
Gromril armor is just a 4+ save; I don't recall there being a ward save included as well.
Dwarf Crafted is a rule for missile weapons. It allows the weapon to be fired as a Stand and Shoot reaction without the -1 penalty.
The thing that surprised me the most about the book is the large number of ways that you can get the Multiple Wounds (d3). It's freaking everywhere.
Another thing is the Rune that's a better version of Red Fury. If you take three Runes of Fury, the model gets +1 Attack, Frenzy, and for every successful To-Hit roll, the model makes another attack roll; these bonus attacks do not generate additional attacks. If you put that on a Lord, it would have 6 attacks that could theoretically generate another 6. In case you didn't notice, the extra attacks are generated by successful To-Hit rolls, not wounds.
Oh, yeah, the Flame Cannon now has two firing modes. The first is just like a regular Flame Cannon from the main rule book. Alternatively, it can be overcharged so that you can nominate a point up to 12" from the Flame Cannon to be the point from which the artillery die roll originates for determining where the template ends up. But, if you fire in this mode and roll a misfire, you subtract 1 from the roll on the black powder weapon misfire table.
Hrm. Lemme see what I can remember. Most things have Heavy Armor now, even the artillery crew, if I remember correctly. The new units are the Bomber and the Iron Drakes. I don't recall any others.
Slayers didn't really change much, I don't think. I never played them before. They still have the Slayer Axe rule. They can never wound anything on worse than a 4+. There's a special character Slayer that has a 3+/4++, and if you take him, he can be the Army General.
The Organ Gun is now BS based, but rolls two artillery dice, rather than one. It can be given up to 50 points of Runes, and there's a +1 to hit Rune. Also, the range is now 30"; I seem to remember that it was 24" before. Is my memory correct in that.
The 'Copter has a once per game Diver Bomber attack that is kind of similar to the Drop Rocks attack of that flying unit in the Lizardmen book have. The basic weapon for the 'Copter is a S3 Flame Template, but can be traded for free to a 18" S5 Multiple Shot (4) gun. I'm pretty sure it's 4 shots. Up to half of the 'Copters in the army (rounded up) can be given a 20 point upgrade that allows them a Vanguard move. I'm really liking the idea of Vanguarding up a couple of them to move into position to five the template down the length of units from outside their charge arc.
The Master Rune of Balance only steals a die on a roll of 4+. All the rune-guys can channel.
I wasn't really impressed with the Anvil. The first power makes all friendly units within 12" (or it might be 24", can't remember) Immune to Psychology for a turn. The next one buffs a target unit's Armor Save by one (I think, really not sure on this one, can't remember for sure). And the last one is a S4 magic missile that inflicts 2d6 hits, I believe. They all work like bound spells.
Daemon Slayers make their opponent re-roll successful ward saves. Dragon Slayers have the Multiple Wound (d3) rule.
Oh, the bomb thing that the 'Drakes can get is an 8" range weapon that functions kind of like a Stone Thrower. I can't remember the Strength of it. It seems kind of risky, though, since to be close enough to use it, you're close enough for it to land back on top of you.
I believe that Ironbreakers and Hammerers are both 14 points, base. 'Breakers can get a shield for 1 point. Sheildwall is a rule that on the turn the unit is charged, they get +1 to their Parry save. There's another rule that's like "Gromril Shield Wall" or something, and I think I remember that this gives the +1 to Parry save at all times.
One thing for sure, Dwarves will no longer be shutting down the magic phase. Rune-guys can channel for Dispel Dice, but don't automatically provide them. The army gets a base +2 to attempt to dispel, regardless of what's in the army. The Master Rune of Valaya adds another +2 to dispel, and will dispel any RiP spell on a roll (can't remember the target number, I think it's a 3+) at the beginning of the Magic Phase. There's no range, so any RiP spell on the table has to be rolled for.
I'll look for more specifics on the Rune-guys tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure you can still take multiple Runes of Spellbreaking. The Spelleating one still exists, too.
Like I said, I might be mistaken about the dispel dice thing; I didn't read the book cover-to-cover, or anything. I'm very confident about the +2 to dispel; but there might also be somewhere else that mentions additional "free" dispel dice.
Oh, I actually kind of like the Oathstone now. I never used it in the last book, but I seem to remember that if you planted the Oathstone, the unit couldn't move anymore. Or was that the previous army book? Anyway, the Oathstone doesn't now prevent the unit from moving. The unit can use Parry saves in any direction and cannot have their ranks Disrupted.
The base 'Copter cost is 80. The Vanguard move upgrade is 20 points.
No big centerpiece model. In fact, the only unit types in the book are Infantry, Warmachine, and "Unique."
The Flame Cannon also has Multiple Wounds (d3).
@blind bum: It's the actual army book. By "demo book," meant that it was a single copy given to the store. They used to do this a lot before. The store owner was actually willing to sell it to me today, but I didn't want to take it away from all the other people that might want to look at it just to have it a week earlier than normal.
Miners use regular Ambush rules now. They can be upgraded to have a single use missile weapon, but I kind of thought it was too expensive for what it does. The Drill still exists and gives a +1 to the roll to see if they show up.
I actually kind of like Ironbreakers. With Shields, they are T4 with a 3+/5++. They're 14 points, just like Hammerers. Hammerers are more offensive minded, but still only have a 5+ save from the Heavy Armor.
Slayers did have one cool rule, but dunno how worthwhile it'll be in play. If a close combat attack (excluding Impact Hits) reduces a Slayer to 0 wounds, that Slayer model makes a free attack right then before pulling the model. Other than the special timing of the Attack, it's treated like a regular attack roll. This includes being killed by Stomp, for example. So, if you're facing something like Ogres, when the Ogres swing, the models they kill automatically attack back. Then the remaining eligible Slayers make their regular attacks. Then, any models killed by the Ogres' Stomp attack make their free attacks.
I kind of remember that just a lot of units have Shieldwall. I know I remember that regular old Warriors have the rule. Ironbreakers have the upgraded rule (something like Gromril Shieldwall, or something) that allows them to (I believe) have the bonus +1 to Parry all the time. I'll check to make sure tomorrow.
Dwarves do NOT have access to the Main Rulebook magic items, but they have an extensive listing of
Runic items. There's one page of unique Runic items. Two pages of weapon runes. One page each for Armor, Standard, Talisman, and Warmachine Runes. So, all told, a total seven pages of what amount to Magic Items, with a huge amount of customization possible. Several runes can be taken multiple times, with each additional rune bringing an added benefit. My favorite example is the one I posted earlier with the Rune of Fury: 1 gives you +1 Attack; 2 gives you +1 Attack and Frenzy; 3 gives you +1 Attack, Frenzy, and each successful To-Hit roll results in a bonus attack (bonus attacks do not generate additional attacks). On a Lord, that means he's got a chance of 12 attacks.
Master Engineers allow re-rolls to a dice involved in firing warmachines. If the Engineer is within 3" of a Warmachine, he can take a Look Out Sir! roll from shooting attacks, and successful rolls divert the shot to the Warmachine. There's more, but that's all I can remember right now.
Oh, Bugman allows you to convert one unit of Rangers into what might as well be Longbeard Rangers, but if you do, then Bugman must start in that unit and cannot leave it. It costs an extra 3 points per model, and the Rangers get +1 to WS/S/and I think Initiative, but not positive about the last stat. He still has the healing draught cup. He also has a special rule where each turn you roll two dice and look at a chart to see what affect his Ale has on the affected units (can't remember which units are affected). A roll of 2 kinda sucks. There are two other effects, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. I think one is Immune to Psychology until the next Dwarf turn. I think the other is +1 Toughness til the next Dwarf turn; it's something like that because the fluff for it talks about how the Dwarves are kinda hammered and can't feel pain anymore.
I'm almost certain it's one free attack per slain Slayer. However, it gets to use whatever special rules apply to that attack. So, if you were swinging with the Great Weapon Slayer Axe, it's getting the bonus Strength. If it's a character with a Runic Weapon, the attack has the benefits of the Runic Weapon. Oh, here's an interesting one. I'm pretty sure it was one of the Special Characters, but there's a way to get +3 to the roll at the beginning of the game to see what kind of Hatred you get. So, with that guy, the whole army has Hatred of the other guy's army on a 2+ roll. I wanna say it's the super expensive Dwarf King guy (he's like 650 points), but not positive.
Okay so why does a tunnel fighting unit have bombs. Particularly thrown bombs. That there will not be space to throw effectively. That will cause smoke that will make it impossible for them to see who to shoot at but allow goblins to advance fine. That will probably destabilise and collapse the tunnel.
*facedesk*
- Apparently dwarves aren't antimagic effective anymore, this sucks frankly.
- Thank Grungni that at least we don't have some giant mecha as a centrepiece model
- Copters as special? Really? I don't like the look of the new ones as it is. I'd rather keep them rare.
- One of the few plus sides, I like the idea of being able to put runes on the more unusual war machines. Though I refrain from passing judgement on the new runic options as yet.