Exilian

0.4 Complete BETA
http://depositfiles.com/files/n80j4y0p5

Installation Instructions:

1. Make sure you have a CLEAN copy of RTW 1.5 with BI 1.6
2. Extract the archive to your desktop.
3. Copy/paste the data folder to your CLEAN RTW directory.
4. Overwrite ALL files
5. Go to data/world/maps/base and delete the map.rwm and map_heights.hgt files
6. Create a shortcut for BI and add this in the target line: -show_err -nm -mod
7. TEST!

Here is everything that is included:
Player1's Bug Fixer v3.36
Hader's All Factions Mod
Sinuhet's AI Formations 7.0
Dol Goldur's No Boiling Oil
Three New battering Rams
Wlesmana's Projectiles sticking in Ground Mod
Diadochi Total War's Grass and Sky
BI Night Battles
BI Shieldwall
Resef's Combined Animations
Force Diplomacy by DimeBagHo
Marcus Camillus' Player Formations
SPQR Fort Mod by Lt1956
;;;;;;;0.2;;;;;;
98% of units reskinned
Webbird skins implemented
Warspite skins implemented
Ferres Modding Legion Pack v1.3 implemented
;;;;;;;0.3;;;;;;
DMB fixes so a few units do not look vanilla
RS2 Environments
New banners and symbols for most factions (Brutii, Senate, Scipii still look very vanilla)
Generals and Captains have new textures on strat map. Credits to webbird, warspite, and Prometheus
New textures for the campaign map. Credits go to limes of AEE and RS2. Trees are from M2TW
New settlement models for campaign map thanks to RTR VII
New menu backdrop, and loading screens. I edited the loading screens, Menu is credited to RTR.
New Loading bar from RTR
;;;;;;;;0.3.5;;;;;;;;;
New Seleucid Legionary courtesy of spirit_of_rob
DTW Walls Implemented
;;;;;;;0.4;;;;;;;;;;
RTH 1.2 Map with vanilla set up implemented courtesy of Philadelphos

Unit Edits:
Julii Hastati/Principes have proper shoulder guards just like the other factions (0.1 only)
Cilician Pirates hold Harpoons correctly
Nubian Spearmen and Phalanx Pikemen (Pontus) now have 240 men
Macedon Royal Pikemen and Pontus Phalanx Pikemen have proper rank depth
Nubian Spearmen, Spear Warband, Heavy Spearmen, and all hoplite units have shield wall ability
More units have officers
Early Roman Centurian Wears a Cape (0.1 only)
Phalangites fight with two hands, hoplites fight overhand, romans fight like they should

Campaign Edits:
Roman 'Cavalry Auxilia' unit not available until after Marian Reforms
Map is extended to Western India in the east, Ethiopia/Arabia to the South and Scandinavia/Scotland to the North
Thanks to Philadelphos every city is accurately positioned along with regions, trade routes, and geographical features to get the ultimate historical experience.

Okay there is A LOT to be tested now. Along with the DTW walls, I would like a play through of each faction for at least 15-20 turns.

Things that need to be tested:
Hoplite behavior
Pikemen behavior
Hoplite vs. Pikemen behavior
AI behavior
Sieges
Forts (For every culture)
Force Diplomacy
Night Battles
DTW Walls
Every Faction for 15-20 turns
Then I need a good report on the following:

Faction Status in Beginning: Too strong? Too weak? Historical Inaccuracies?
Starting Buildings: Some factions may start far more advanced than others, in the end this will need to be balanced
Starting Units: Same as above.
Money: How is each faction doing in regards to economy and income?
Overall Difficulty: Is this faction easy or hard to play as.

Play on H/H settings for now.


To use Force Diplomacy:

QuoteIn order to use the force diplomacy script, you must first hit ESC, then game options, then click the "Reset Advisor" button, then click the checkmark to close the scroll!

Then have one of your diplomats engage the AI, you must then click on the"?"
button, the advisor will apear, with text that reads "You can force this faction to accept your offer by clicking on the "show me how" button." If it says something about victory conditions, YOU HAVE DONE IT WRONG! START OVER!

Click on the "Show me how button",
propose whatever you want, the AI will now accept it, as long as it has it! The AI will not give you things it doesn't have(Like money).

This will only work one time per use, if you wish to force the AI again, you must start the process over!

If you have installed BETA 0.4 or later, make sure you delete your 'map_heights.hgt' and 'map.rwm' files if you have not done so already!

Faction Sign Up!

Spoiler

Here is the faction list, please sign up for at least 2! You can sign up for more if you wish.
Julii comrade_general CanOmerxsithspawnx
Scipii CanOmer
Brutii Zephyronian
Senate (Don't have to since it shouldn't be played with)
Macedon comrade_general
Carthage b257
Egypt xsithspawnx
Seleucids b257
Parthia
Gaul b257
Germania b257
Britannia b257
Armenia ahowl11
Pontus ahowl11
Greek Cities Zephyronian
Numidia b257
Spain
Thrace Cozmicus
Dacia Cozmicus
Scythia ahowl11

Current Version- 0.4

I did a quick test with Macedon last night...

Campaign AI seems different. On turn 3 or four, the Brutii landed troops near Corinth and took it! I was shocked as they usually go for Apollonia first. Then later, Thrace attacked Bylazora and easily took it as well. I have never lost so many battles, (maybe it's due to not playing in so long!)

Militia Hoplites are just trash. Now that they do not have phalanx formation they get destroyed.

Hoplite units have a weird push that ends up killing them. They will engage initially and then it's like they are on ice, they just slide forward into the enemy formation. It makes a big blob of fighting similar to Rome 2 :( Any ideas on how to fix this? -Fixed thanks to z3n

Phalangites are strange also.  They don't keep the enemy at bay with their spears. Instead the Hastati navigated their way through the pikes and started killing my phalangites. Also, they have a harder time readjusting and moving around. No more swinging of the pikes! They are weaker but what I noticed is more realistic. Stats just need to be edited.

Battle AI is smarter with the formations.
Morale is crap. Definitely need to change that!

Replace stat_attributes like light_spear/spear & their spear_bonuses with no.

Ah! It works, thanks.

What about the Phalangites though? They don't seem to stand much of a chance in battle now.

For testers, here is the corrected EDU

http://depositfiles.com/files/r2jzzcu88

ignore...

Sigh...I was in such a rush to go back to essay that I edited a previous post out and replaced with what I wanted to post. (might just be I am very tired) :(

Here it is. 

So I believe this should work like this (unit from your EDU) for fixing phalanx.

type             east hoplite
dictionary       east_hoplite      ; Phalanx Pikemen
category         infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type       Heavy_1
soldier          greek_pike_phalanx, 60, 0, 1.3
officer          east_heavy_standard
officer          east_heavy_musician
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation        0.6, 0.6, 2, 2, 4, square, phalanx
stat_health      1, 0
stat_pri         8, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr    spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_8
stat_sec         5, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  6, 5, 5, leather
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        1
stat_ground      2, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental      4, normal, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 470, 170, 50, 70, 470
ownership        pontus

Did two tests. One with your edits, one without. Both seemed to work fine although each has it's pro and con.

With edits:
Lethal front as it should be, turn well but initial formation isn't as deep as it should be.

Without:
Formation is good, lethal front, DON'T turn well.

Here is the replay of the battle without the edits
http://depositfiles.com/files/xpwxyhet8

I think it could deal with the unit and it's morale. My first test where my pikemen got decimated was a Levy Pikemen unit vs Hastati. These past two tests were Phalanx Pikemen.

If it's not deep enough, make the standard number of ranks larger then? I think it's the "4" after formation.

(Do you use the Caligula program, btw?)

Looks good - though i'm not sure about Shield Wall. While i like the idea of it, most mods end up removing it because it's too overpowered (though phalanx formation for phalangites is pretty OP in Rome Total War too imo - its only weakness seems to be to javelin attacks from behind - charging a phalanx in the flank or rear with cavalry even when its fighting enemy to the front doesn't seem to stop them turning some troops to face the new attack)

Everything is running smoothly for now, doing a Seleucid campaign right now. Gotta say though, I have to get used to the vanilla skins and the other roman houses again even though I know its temporary :P. As for Shield wall, I like it, especially for hoplites since it makes a more accurate hoplite phalanx in my opinion.

No I have not used the Caligula Program. What exactly does it do again?

Regards to shieldwall.
I think once more is added to the mod we can better decide if keeping it in is good or not.
My issue is that I believe they are too close. Notice how they keep shifting around and can't stay still? How could I fix that?

Okay, I have changed these units, so it does not look like a huge blob in the battle, although they still mix.. Usually when two units fight, there is a line between them, with these units they still intermingle a bit.. Any other ideas on how to make it better? In RTRPE most units were automatically set to 'guard mode' how could I make it so these units are set to guard mode automatically?

EDIT: Tested in Guard mode, battle lasted longer, hoplites held position. When I toggled off guard mode they did not go crazy but they do 'push' their enemies back which is pretty realistic to me.

Militia Hoplites
Hoplites
Armoured Hoplites
Spartan Hoplites
Spear Warband
Nubian Spearmen
Nile Spearmen
Sacred Band
Heavy Spearmen

I also gave Pontus' Phalanx Pikemen, the same stats as Macedon's Phalanx Pikemen since they originally had Heavy Spearmen stats.
http://depositfiles.com/files/stjjrmf57

Oh and I used Caligula this time :)

ahowl11,there's no realism with Nile Spearmen, or are you working just on gameplay yet?

Quote from: Lenin Cat on December 04, 2013, 04:17:55 PM
ahowl11,there's no realism with Nile Spearmen, or are you working just on gameplay yet?

I think ahowl11 is working on the gameplay first before he starts adding the eye candy and historical accuracy which is pretty smart once you think about it.

Indeed...

Yeah, I'm getting the mechanics figured out before I go retooling rosters, factions and maps. Nile Spearmen and many other vanilla units will eventually be removed.

However, to make things look better, I am slowly but surely adding various reskin packs to the mod by warspite and webbird. So far Pontus, Armenia, Numidia and all Mercenaries have been reskinned. Once I get all of the factions reskinned I will release the next full BETA. Until then I suggest we test as much as possible to see if there is anything that still needs to be fixed.

I've just looked up webbirds work, pretty good :), though I can't seem to find anything on warsprite :(.

Look in the downloads section of TWC, type warspite in the search box :)

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 05, 2013, 05:17:03 PM
Look in the downloads section of TWC, type warspite in the search box :)

Oh warspite, I thought you meant warsprite, thanks dude. Back to beta testing discussion, I noticed that AI controlled cavalry tends to charge head on into pikes, probably because I'm playing on medium and forgot to set it to VH :P btw the way, what factions do you plan to add to replace the roman houses?

This is my faction list so far

1. Rome
2. Carthage
3. Macedon
4. Seleucid
5. Egypt
6. Parthia
7. Pontus
8. Armenia
9. Gaul
10. Germania
11. Dacia
12. Iberia
13. Sarmatia
14. Illyria
15. Numidia
16. Greek Cities - Athens, Achaean League, Rhodes, Byzantium, Massilia
17. Celtic Tribes - Galatia, Celt-Iberians, Noricum, Britons
18. Greek States - Sparta, Aetolian League, Bosporan Kingdom, Syracuse
19. Hellenic Kingdoms - Epirus, Pergamum, Cyrene, Bactria
20. Independent Peoples - Odrysian Kingdom, Bithynia, Cappadocia, Atropatene, Nabataea, Mauryans, Saba*, Ethiopia*
21. Rebels

So I take it Bactria won't be a playable faction, this saddens me  :'(, oh well win some you lose some *sniff*

It will be a swap faction similar to RS2. The list above just gives the main campaign factions

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 06, 2013, 12:22:44 AM
It will be a swap faction similar to RS2. The list above just gives the main campaign factions

And with that my tears of sorrow have turned into tears of joy :). Just out of curiosity what other unit packs do you intend to use for the other factions? Is it just Warspite and Webbird or do you have other planned?

Well webbird covers: Gaul, Germania, Britannia, Dacia, Scythia, Spain, GCS, Macedon, Thrace, Seleucids, and Egypt
Warspite covers: Pontus, Armenia, Numidia, Mercenaries
Kali covers Parthia but I don't like the style so I won't use them.
Maximusminimus and webbird cover Carthage
Ferres and Godzilla cover the Romans

So really I just need stuff to fill in for the Rebels :)

Also, I am only reskinning the units for now. No new units will be added, and these skins ARE NOT final. If I find better ones I will use them.

I gave a good hard look at the other units of Ferres, Algaman, and Milner. Not my style. So other than the Romans, those units will not be used.

Casus Belli has some nice reskins. I am still looking.

I can help you with skins too :)
Anyways ,glad to see Dacia there but aren't there too many Greeks?
Also will you make a faction swap with Britons too? And give'em archers!

Also sorry for duble-post but I want ahowl11 to see it.
What map are you going to use?
Also I couldn't find time to install it yet , sorry. But I hope that when you get new versions out you release them as patches.

I acn help you find some skins too, a couple of hidden treasures perhaps :). Is There a specific style that you are looking for? Also, I'm having fun with the capmaign right now as the Seleucids, though I've been playing mods for so long I kinda miss the AOR, not used to going to battle without horse archers supporting my phalanx and the Militia cav just doesn't do it for me :P, though i'm loving the new animation for the Militia hoplites, especially the Shield wall ability, really guards the flanks of my Phalanx well and its fun to watch them chase the enemy when they route.

Style needs to be similar to how units looked in RTRPE. If either of you or both of you could do that, great progress could be made in the future regarding units. I also need someone willing yo do UI's but I MAY have found someone at TWC. unDa, who is active with DTW helps.

There needs to be many greeks in the main campaign to simulate all the political intrigue at the time. I think the faction list is perfect as is.

I am glad you are enjoying such a vanilla version b257! Care to share some screens?

I'm gonna have to download fraps again :P, I'm about to engage two large Egyptian stacks with my Army of Pikemen Militia Hoplites, Peltasts, Eastern Mercs,  my mercenary camel cav and my General Being my only Cavalry unit, I left my Militia Cav in Sidon by accident, so yeah it should be epic. I noticed though in one of my siege battles Cavalry has difficulty running and maneuvering in cities might want to check that up.

As for units, I might suggest Extended Greek Mod and Extended Cultures as they have some hidden gem Units similar in style to RTRPE, their Syrian Archer Model is pretty good. Some of their units are taken from other mods Like EB but some are XGM and XCM Originals.

I'd definitely like to see some screens of that battle!

Eh, maybe. I thought EB style would be good, but it actually does not fit well with the RTRPE style. Reskinning certain XGM/XC units to get rid of the vanilla colors is an option though.

Well Here Goes, the first battle wasn't epic as I had Hoped but boy did the 2nd one make me wish I had my Militia Cavalry. This was a tough battle so I didn't get to take many screens but I'm posting the best ones I was able to get. I'm gonna do this dramatic Role Play AAR style since I've never done one before :P

Spoiler

I was Laying siege to Jerusalem, hoping to buy myself time and to weaken the Garrison before I attacked. I would have no such luck as a foolish Captain of the Egyptian Army Attacked me with a Paltry Force, however the Captains Brave act spurred the Garrison of the City to Sally Forth and attack as well:
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-40-50-76_zps53d6c04b.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-40-50-76_zps53d6c04b.png.html)

At a disadvantage, I set my Forces Up on a hill Facing the Enemy forcing them to Fight Uphill. It was a necessary maneuver as my force, while large was nothing more than a Militia force supported by Unreliable Mercenaries and a Paltry Cavalry Force, But these sheep were led by a Lion, I intended to secure a great Victory this day.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-41-56-48_zpsb1a64fc2.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-41-56-48_zpsb1a64fc2.png.html)

The first wave of Attackers Consisted of the Foolish Captain, Spearmen from Nubia and Spearmen from the Nile, a force I was not concerned with.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-42-15-60_zps63d42714.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-42-15-60_zps63d42714.png.html)

The Force from Jerusalem however was another Story, Led by a Brash Yet Cunning Commander, he brought with him a massive Host of Egypt's best, arrayed in a way that my Hill advantage would be rendered meaningless as his force could easily encircle me and take advantage of the glaring weakness my Army had, Inexperience.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-42-25-32_zps5f23a0e8.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-42-25-32_zps5f23a0e8.png.html)

The Young Captain was the first to fall, his cowardice revealed itself as he and his army fled from my Pikes, I did not waste my Javelins on the coward, I needed them for the Oncoming Storm.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-47-01-96_zps2f8074f8.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-47-01-96_zps2f8074f8.png.html)

The Generals Brashness showed as he Charged my army head on, Leading his chariots into my pikes. A foolish tactics, it cost him and his retinue their lives but allowed his Light Cavalry to launch a devastating charge on my Left Flank.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-49-50-85_zpsbffeade7.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-49-50-85_zpsbffeade7.png.html)

What I had feared most, What I had Tried to Prevent happened, my men's inexperience had gotten the better of them and my left crumbled as the combined Cavalry and Infantry strike killed many with only the Eastern Mercenaries standing their ground.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-53-24-96_zps1edd46ce.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-53-24-96_zps1edd46ce.png.html)

The Bravery of the Mercenaries gave me the time Needed to act, Quickly, I rallied my Skirmishers and Ordered them to Counter Charge the Enemy Force.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-53-40-51_zps62264e78.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-53-40-51_zps62264e78.png.html)

The Battle devolved into a disorganized melee as neither side held an Advantage. But without its General the Mighty Egyptian Army eventually Buckled and their fleeing men were picked off.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-54-51-64_zps1b0e070a.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-54-51-64_zps1b0e070a.png.html)

While it was a Heroic victory it was still costly, Over 311 men were lost, men that would never see their families or friends again. The Only Solace I could take from this battle is that the Garrison of Jerusalem was crushed  leaving the city defenseless and ripe for the Taking.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-57-12-10_zps17776ac0.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-0814-57-12-10_zps17776ac0.png.html)

All in all it was good battle, I fought another one after that but I forgot to take screens, now Pontus and Armenia have joined the fray. Kind of annoying how Armenia declares a ceasefire and then immediately attacks me though. Also the General charging head on into Pikes, is that supposed to happen?

Good battle AAR! How do the pikemen fare with the new animations?
It seems like the general always does that. I do not know if it is correctable.

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 09, 2013, 01:11:56 AM
Good battle AAR!

Thank you :), First Time I ever did one.

QuoteHow do the pikemen fare with the new animations?

Pretty Darn Good, they managed to hold their formation and Not Take any casualties when charged from the front. But as you can see from my AAR the Flanks are their weak points which is historically accurate. Shield wall was also useless when hit in the flanks, which is also good.

QuoteIt seems like the general always does that. I do not know if it is correctable.

From the edits and additions I noticed you have not yet added a combat AI mod Pack yet, so once you do perhaps this will fix this but you could ask the Guys in TWC too if they have a solution.

Other than that I haven't found any real problems, mod is running smoothly without any hiccups. Might want to extend more BETA testing Invites too, Kinda Lonely around here :P

I do not know of any AI modding packs for RTW? If you know of any please point me to them!

Lenin Cat is supposed to test as well as a few others. I'm sure they are busy though. I am busy too since I have finals starting tomorrow. Luckily I have them all tomorrow, so I should have the next BETA out by the end of the week. :)

Sorry Dude, guess no one made one :(, I'm sure you'll find a fix for this though. Overall the enemy army proved to be very hard to fight, it maneuvered its cavalry and infantry to strike at my weakest point and nearly turned the battle against me, If the Eastern Mercs hadn't held against the Nubians I would have been finished.

I don't believe any exist. The best way to modify AI behavior is by their formations, which has already been done. AI generals stupidly charging your frontline is an issue that cannot be fixed I am afraid. But that's good, I'm glad the AI works well. Now we just need longer battles eh? I'll more than likely base the stats off RTRPE, or if anyone is good with stat balancing they can edit them. I have never manually edited stats, only copied from other mods such as RTRPE.

I actually like RTRPE Battles, especially since Sparabara's don't break as easily, so I wouldn't mind if you used it for this mod :).

That is more than likely what will happen.
Carthaginian Skins added, and I made a UI last night
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/160x210q90/834/6cv2.jpg)
Pontic Eastern Infantry

Nice work. :)

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 09, 2013, 07:00:53 PM
That is more than likely what will happen.
Carthaginian Skins added, and I made a UI last night
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/160x210q90/834/6cv2.jpg)
Pontic Eastern Infantry

Oh, Nice work, So I take it the next update will include some reskins?

Every unit will have a reskin for the next BETA. I hope to have it ready by the weekend. UI's will come later. They are very tedious and boring to do.

Good to know, Also update on Beta Testing,

1. Siege battles run smoothly, although Cavalry tends to have some difficulty moving in the city, nothing serious just slow at times.
2. Hoplite Shield wall is effective but I noticed they tend to push forward a lot if they aren't put into guard mode.
3. Pike Phalanx is Absolutely impenetrable from the Front, but the They are weaker on the Flanks and rear.
4. Hoplites vs Pike Phalanx is an even match in my Opinion. Hoplites attacking from the Front are no match for the Pikes Phalanx Formation but if maneuvered to attack the Flanks and Sides then the Hoplites either Over Power them or fight on Even Terms.

I haven't gotten to test night battles yet and I'm going try forced Diplomacy on Armenia and Pontus since both are attacking me at the moment and ruining my campaign against Egypt. I'm Going do a Custom Battle with Urbans vs Silver Shield Pikes to see how they do. in frontal assault.

I'll get z3n over here to see if he knows any more about the hoplites. Please post your results with night battles and forced diplomacy. I hope they work.
Also, Parthia and Spain are reskinned..

I have these factions left:
Egypt
Scythia
Dacia
Germania
Britannia
Gaul
Greeks
Macedon
Seleucid
Thrace
Julii
Scipii
Brutii
Senate
Rebels

Results:
1. Night Battles:
Night Battles work like a charm, no problems to report :)

2. Forced Diplomacy:
Forced Diplomacy also worked like a charm, made Armenia and Pontus vassals, granted they attacked me immediately in the next turn but still, it worked, and plus I did not have to rest the advisor at all :)

Side Note:
I did a Custom Battle between Fully Upgraded Urbans and Fully Upgraded Silver Shield Pikes. The Urbans Had great difficulty attacking from the front before they were routed but the AI opponent maneuvered his left to attack my right flank, routing my right wing so again Pikes are still good in the front, even against Urbans but are weak on the flanks.

Hoplites, this is known issue for all types of units. Not just hoplites. Guard is the only thing that seems to solve it.

This is a somewhat realistic feature though.

True, hoplites didn't fight individually, they fought as a group. Just keep them in guard mode or shield wall for effectiveness

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 11, 2013, 04:59:13 AM
True, hoplites didn't fight individually, they fought as a group. Just keep them in guard mode or shield wall for effectiveness

Good to Know, by the way, the movie that is suppose to play when a faction is destroyed doesn't show. The notification that tells you still shows up but the movie that plays with it doesn't, not game killer by any means but I thought you should know.

It is because of either one of these reasons:
1. The BI.exe does not show those OR
2. I have movies disabled with -nm in the shorctut targetline

I accidentally edited your pot as it is late at night, I didn't change anything so no worries haha

No Problem ;D by the way whats the title of this version of RTR going to be exactly? Is it going to be RTRPE 3.0?

I have no idea o.O
Right now, it's the RTR Project.

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 12, 2013, 04:27:16 AM
I have no idea o.O
Right now, it's the RTR Project.

:o, well your the man with the plan, I'm sure a title will come to you :)

I'm sure it will as well.
Finished school for the semester today so I now have more time for modding. However my work schedule is busy from noon tomorrow to all of saturday. I will try and blitz the adding of the rest of the skins tomorrow morning. If I have left overs, they can be completed tomorrow night. I am hoping that by Friday, I will have something out for you. The BETA will feature every single vanilla unit, reskinned. And as far as the Roman factions are concerned they will be reskinned, but there maybe new model entries depending on what I decide to do. I would also like to add in new banners and faction symbols, but I could add those on Sunday if I have time. So to sum it up here is my plan for the next week:

1. Finish adding reskins of all vanilla units and release 2nd BETA
2. Add in Symbols and Banners for vanilla factions
3. Revamp Campaign map visuals with better textures, settlement models, character skins and other miscellaneous stuff
4. Add in RS2 Environments

Awesome, take your time, don't rush  ;D

Egypt, Scythia, and Dacia reskinned.

New models have been added to the following units to fit the textures.

Sacred Band/Armoured Hoplites
Iberian Infantry/Round Shield Cavalry
Scythian, Dacian & German Standard Bearer
Gothic Cavalry
Chosen Swordsmen

I have these factions left:
Germania
Britannia
Gaul
Greeks
Macedon
Seleucid
Thrace
Romans - All three will be done at once
Rebels

Well Done :), Do you plan on implementing 4TPY as well? I like to take my time ;D. You know ahowl11, truthfully going into this beta I thought it was going to be that RTR Alexander Mod you announced on TWC :P either way I'm glad to be beta testing for such a promising mod :)

Yes, I will be at some point.
I tried to force myself to go Alexander, but I can't do anything really until I successfully complete this time era which is my favorite

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 13, 2013, 03:30:22 AM
Yes, I will be at some point.
I tried to force myself to go Alexander, but I can't do anything really until I successfully complete this time era which is my favorite

Better to start this way, gives you the groundwork to Complete the alexander mod quicker once you feel this one is complete, and plus Milner made a really good Macedonian Roster that would suit the period as well as a Scythian roster even though I know you would prefer to avoid well known unit rosters.

Also for fun I ran into this on CA's site:
http://www.totalwar.org/games/screengallery_rome/image_89.html

Tell me what you see, hint, it's not a mod :)

Pre release screen shot. I notice a lot of things that were planned but never implemented.

Reskinned Germania, Britannia, Gaul and the Roman factions. Not happy with Ferres' Modding pack v1.5, I will look for 1.3 and see if it looks better suited for the mod tomorrow.
EDIT:
Downloaded and checked out a few textures.. Much, much better. The faces and skin are still vanilla (not ferres style) and the skins themselves are nice looking. Plus the Brutii are not replicas of the Julii. Much better version in my opinion.

I only have these factions left:

Greeks
Macedon
Seleucids
Thrace
Rebels

Should be finished tomorrow night.

Quote from: b257 on December 13, 2013, 04:39:03 AM
Also for fun I ran into this on CA's site:
http://www.totalwar.org/games/screengallery_rome/image_89.html

Tell me what you see, hint, it's not a mod :)

Never seen that before, very cool. 8)

I always had a soft spot for the Brutii, When I used to Play Res Gestae I always tried to recreate the Eastern Roman Empire using them. Such a good mod unit wise, shame it is still somewhat unpolished, if only I knew how to mod, then I would make a patch that would fix some of the bugs it has :(

ON a side note, I haven't played the mod in anticipation for the Update :), I'll probably do a Brutii Campaign :D,

I'm about to start the final push of reskins and then I will release. I wish UI's did not take forever to do, because it won't look right having vanilla UI's with realistic units. However, it will have to be like that for awhile until I have enough time to methodically make all UI's. Or if I can find someone to do them!

http://depositfiles.com/files/rhuqpmfs5
Here is BETA 0.2

Just extract to the current folder. Overwrite everything.

comrade_general, there are a few units for the rebels that don't have their own textures. Would you be able to reskin some existing ones to give to them? As long as they do not look vanilla and differ somewhat from the other textures, I don't have any preference.

I will probably add in the Pinarius Horses shortly, along with the animations for the riders. That will come on Sunday with the banners, symbols, and campaign map textures/models. If I have time, RS2 environments will come as well.

Tested some of the new units in custom battles and they look great  :), But I think I found a Unit model Bug, the Seleucid legionary has the Julii legionary Model so you might want to check that, other than that the new units look great, especially the romans  ;)

Would you happen to have a listing of these rebel scum? :)

Ok I did a final run-through of the faction units (I skipped the rebels) and multiple CTD's due to a known vanilla bug and with the Seleucid Legion model being the only hang up, all I can say is that these new skins are FANTASTIC!!! The Romans look Great!!! the Carthaginians are Awesome!!! You can keep the current unit roster as is, remove the unhistorical ones and replace them with historical ones.  I also see so much potential for the Egyptians as well, we can keep some of the reskinned units like the axemen and nile infantry and replace the silly ones like the heavy archers, chariots and pharaohs guard with Hellenistic and mercenary units like pikemen, Cretan archers and Galatians.

Edit:
I just Noticed the Seleucid Cataphract is the same Model as the Parthian Cataphract. While Doing some Rummaging I found these two Hellenistic Cataphract Models made by Intel for RS 2.1A for the Seleucids and Pergamum, now hear me out, based on the new reskins implemented these early model Cataphracts seem like they would fit well with the seleucids and could be a good base work for other Hellenic factions with Cataphract units. Just a thought.   

My memory avoids me comrade, I'll have to check in the morning.

There will be plenty of changes for units to come. Some of the skins/models will be swapped for better ones.
Can I get a link the the Cataphracts?

Quote from: ahowl11 on December 15, 2013, 07:47:57 AM
There will be plenty of changes for units to come. Some of the skins/models will be swapped for better ones.
Can I get a link the the Cataphracts?

D'oh, I though I posted the Link, here it is:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?418635-RS-2-1a-Intel-s-texture-tweaks-)-25-01-2010-Seleucid-and-Pergamon-Hellenic-Cataphracts-see-page-3&p=8854654&viewfull=1#post8854654

I know they are for RS 2.1 but their style reminds me of the Cataphracts in RTRPE except more polished and aside for the Horse model which can be removed they aren't that complex in appearance.

I like the RTRPE Agema model/better. In any case, the vanilla one will have to go.

Did you also Reskin the Numidian Legionnaires too? Just asking because they still have their vanilla model I haven't checked the Armenian Legionnaire yet.

Edit:
Armenian's still have their vanilla legionnaires as well,

They are reskinned, I just need to fix the DMB

Ok then :) will this fix the Seleucid Legionnaire too?

On a side note, I can't wait till the romans are merged. Playing as Carthage, the freaking Scipii have no problem sending wave after waves of troops to keep me from Syracuse. When you do start replacing the Units can the Carthaginian infantry stay the same they have kind of grown on me :) or if you do change them can you make the Libyan Spear an AOR unit, I like its new look :D

We will see.
I should have a new version out by the end of tonight.

Great, you know this has to be the smoothest beta I've ever played, aside from the legionnaire reskin hiccups no significant bugs have been found yet :)

Well I was thinking about it, and everything I have done is basically porting.
I simply copy/pasted the unit entries over the vanilla ones and then copy/pasted the necessary files for the units.

I am taking a small break before I finish up 0.3.

So far I have implemented reskins for the generals and captains on the campaign map, except for the Rebel General, for some reason I get a weird generic error every time I try to change the entry. So there is one bug.
I do not know what I will do concerning the diplomats/spys and assassins, still brainstorming.
New settlement models have been implemented along with new siege and blockade models.
The campaign map looks a lot better with new textures and trees. Also, some factions have had their color changed.

All that is left before 0.3 is ready is:
New Banners/Symbols for every faction except the Senate (I could not find an RTR style symbol for them).
RS2 Environments

Well porting does take some skill, you have to make sure the mods you implement work together properly :). Lost my carthage campaign by the way, Scipii reconquered Sicily with a stack of Hastati and Principes and the Numdians and Iberians bum rushed me and the Julii invaded my other island holdings :(. The Carthaginian Starting units stink  :'(

The last thing I will do for this version of the map is redo some starting positions and armies. It will be as realistic as the vanilla map can get. Then I'll move on to the RTH map.

0.3 BETA
http://depositfiles.com/files/mvtj6q0o7

This is not a full mod, just the files added to the current mod.

Includes:
DMB fixes so a few units do not look vanilla
RS2 Environments
New banners and symbols for most factions (Brutii, Senate, Scipii still look very vanilla, but Joar from TWC will make them for me after Christmas)
Generals and Captains have new textures on strat map. Credits to webbird, warspite, and Prometheus
New textures for the campaign map. Credits go to limes of AEE and RS2. Trees are from M2TW
New settlement models for campaign map thanks to RTR VII
New menu backdrop, and loading screens. I edited the loading screens, Menu is credited to RTR.
New Loading bar from RTR

It feels a lot more realistic now than before.

What's left before moving on to bigger map and one Roman Faction:
*DTW Walls
*BI Buildings
*RS2 Settlement Trees
*RS2 Hillforts
UI's for all units
New Interface for a few factions
Possibly new models/textures for diplomats, spies, and assassins
More realistic starting positions and armies
Better Stats for all units
Rise of Rome Provincial Campaign (Historical Campaign)
4 turns per year
Roman Cognomen names
Pinarius Horses (and animations for riders with it)
Other small add ons

*These will be very difficult to add in since I have yet to figure out a way to get either of them in without CTD's and bugs. Hopefully z3n and others from TWC can assist me.

Downloaded the update and tested some custom battles and found some bugs:

1. Seleucid Silver shield is still the Julii Model.
2. When I tried to check the Numidian Legionary I got this error:

QuoteGeneric Error:

Failed to find texture
'data/models_unit/textures/unit_roman_legionary_I_numidia_wb.tga'.

I'm thinking I'll probably encounter the same thing with the Armenian legionary too. I'll check the campaign later to see if their are any bugs there.

Edit:
Took a screenshot of what I noticed on the campaign map:

Spoiler

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-1709-32-49-42_zps2ecf5d14.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-1709-32-49-42_zps2ecf5d14.png.html)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k306/deus257/RomeTW-BI2013-12-1709-32-57-54_zps9f9faeaa.png) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/deus257/media/RomeTW-BI2013-12-1709-32-57-54_zps9f9faeaa.png.html)

it's mainly in Europe
Africa and middle east don't have this issue

Oooh, it's our old friend the purple terrain bug!  :)

@Jubal
Am I just missing a few terrain files from the BETA folder?

I will look into the legionaries. The Seleucid one is supposed to look that way. I think Spirit of Rob created one, I'll see if I can replace the webbird version with it.

I think so, yes. C_G fixed it when WHTW had the problem, he probably remembers the bug better than I do.

Aye, must make sure all the terrain files are present and located where they should be according to descr_aerial_map_ground_types.txt

Sorry I haven't been helping much otherwise with this... quite useless lately (also busy). :/

Okay, I will come out with a patch around Christmas. I just received the new Roman symbols today and now I am hoping for a new Dacian and Briton symbol from Joar. Once I have all the symbols implemented and the necessary fixes done, I will release a patch. If anyone knows someone that can do UI's please let me know. I really do not want to do them! If I have to, I will.

Good to hear, I haven't been able to play of late due to me being sick but I look forward to the next release, but don't push yourself man, relax and enjoy the Holidays :D.

Yeah, ahowl , enjoy the holidays :D

Yes, I need to. Taking a break since I burned myself out.

Played a good Macedon Campaign. Everything works smoothly.

Happy New Years Everyone :)!!! Hope you all enjoyed yourselves.

New years gift:
0.3.5 Patch!
http://depositfiles.com/files/nq4k6qi8v

Includes:
DMB Issues fixed (I promise, Numidian and Armenian skins appear!)
New Seleucid Legionary model/texture courtesy of sprit_of_rob
Terrain Issue on Campaign Map fixed
DTW Walls!

Simply extract to your data folder and play.

Testing:
Please test the new Seleucid Legionary, he looks pretty awesome
Test the walls, the walls replace the tier 2 wooden walls in the campaign map. In custom battle they are stone walls.

Future Plans:
RS2 Settlement trees - Will be toughest thing for me to add
RTH 1.2 Map - Yup, the first full release will not include the vanilla map as there is no way to represent the factions accurately on the vanilla map.
Roman Faction Symbols/Banners - Have them, just need to put them in.
phalanx_mans EDU - This guy pretty much knows everything about the EDU, battles will be a lot longer and realistic after he is finished and I implement it.
UI Cards - Mental Block is keeping me from doing these. I simply do not want to, but then again I do...

After all the above is added, we should see a v1.0 released to the Public

Wow that was fast.

4.0 BETA is here. Two BETA's in one day!
http://depositfiles.com/files/4ib9gfqw5

Includes:
RTH 1.2 Map courtesy of Philadelphos (many edits in descr_strat to reflect vanilla set up done by me)

Okay there is A LOT to be tested now. Along with the DTW walls, I would like a play through of each faction for at least 15-20 turns. Then I need a good report on the following:

Faction Status in Beginning: Too strong? Too weak? Historical Inaccuracies?
Starting Buildings: Some factions may start far more advanced than others, in the end this will need to be balanced
Starting Units: Same as above.
Money: How is each faction doing in regards to economy and income?
Overall Difficulty: Is this faction easy or hard to play as.

Play on H/H settings for now.

Installation:
Extract data folder into the current RTW directory that holds the previous BETA (you must have 0.3.5 installed!)
Go to data/world/maps/base and delete these files: 'map_heights.hgt' and 'map.rwm' before you start playing

I will do a little recruiting to get some more testers over here. So far I know I can count on b257! comrade_general, jubal, lenin cat, what say you? Can you test at least 2 factions for me?

Here is the faction list, please sign up for at least 2! You can sign up for more if you wish.
Julii comrade_general CanOmer
Scipii CanOmer
Brutii
Senate (Don't have to since it shouldn't be played with)
Macedon comrade_general
Carthage b257
Egypt
Seleucids b257
Parthia
Gaul
Germania
Britannia
Armenia ahowl11
Pontus ahowl11
Greek Cities
Numidia b257
Spain
Thrace Cozmicus
Dacia Cozmicus
Scythia ahowl11

Future Plans and Ideas/Questions:

Obviously I need to add the RS2 Settlement trees and Roman Faction Symbols/Banners.

My question is should I release the first version as a vanilla faction set up with the 3 Roman Families? Or should I instead start getting rid of the senate feature and change the Roman families into:
Greek States
Hellenic Kingdoms
Independent Peoples

And also changing:
Thrace to Illyria
Britannia to Celtic Tribes
Dacia to Getai
Spain to Iberia
Scythia to Sarmatia

Also if I do this, then I will also hold off on doing UI's until I have all factions set up and then all necessary units added.

My thinking is that it will end up like this anyways, why waste time on a vanilla faction set up?

I can do Carthage, The Seleucids and Numidia, so you can count on me  ;D

Awesome! Anyone else? Please? Haha

I'm totally flat out on coursework until the middle of the month, sorry :(

That's okay! I'm hoping a few new members will appear and test.

I will really try this weekend. No promises.  :-\

Which faction(s)?

Just put me down for Julii and Macedonia for now.

You got it!

Hello,

I am ready for test, I quickly started as Julii to see what is there.

Campaign Map

RTH map is quite realistic map, I tried it before. But it is has some problems; such as saw teeth on beaches, graphical deformities on rivers, examples:
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/72231_1.jpg
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/82157_2.jpg
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/26014_3.jpg
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/39478_4.jpg

I edited map_heights.tga to fix it but map is not made by properly. There are 0,0,0 (RGB) black areas which are shouldn't be. I can't determine where are sea and land without examining the entire map. There should be 1,1,1 values for beaches to get rid of saw teeth glitch.

I think you should use Europa Barbarorum campaign map or another proper map. Also, old and abandoned RTRVII map was great but not completed.

Campaign map is very important for AI, there may not be CTD but it can cause AI to mess up whcih is hard to notice. As noted here: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?50437-Making-a-new-campaign-map

Unit Level of Detail (LOD)

http://www.pictureshack.us/images/15504_RomeTW-BI_2014-01-03_13-42-39-438.jpg
Units are better than vanilla but it seems LOD isn't changed. I can't run on highest unit detail because of lag, so I need to lower unit details one level. So, as you see in the screenshot unit LOD (sprite I think) needs update.

So, is there no way to fix the jagged edges? If someone could fix that it would make things look a lot better as I have noticed the same things. The rivers are what bother me most. Thanks for pointing those out though.

As for the LOD's I thought I'd be fine without making sprites, but I realize that there are still people out there with older PC's. comrade_general do you have any experience with making sprites? I have never made them. Isn't there a sprite generator out there?

Thank you CanOmer for the finds. I cannot wait to see your faction analysis.

I have made them before. They are a paaaaiiiinnnn. :P

I might look into fixing the map up for you, usually I find map stuff more fun than gameplay tests.

That would be wonderful if you could do that!

Found a bug, forgot to turn on fraps though so you have to bare with me. In my Seleucid campaign Egypt assaulted Sardes with a single siege tower, Sardes is defended by a regular stone wall. When the Egyptians attacked They were using the siege tower used on Epic Stonewalls, the one that shoots ballistae bolts. Long story short it was too tall for the wall and the Enemy AI could not attack my city effectively and my Towers won me the battle, other than that the seleucids are proving to be very enjoyable and balanced so far and I'm 7 turns in, I look forward to playing as the numidians and Carthage, I just wish my mouse wasn't acting up, the damn scroll wheel isn't working right so I had to make the Z and X keys my zoom in buttons

It has something to do with adding in the DTW walls. I wouldn't know how to fix it. I'll see if z3n knows.

I am playing with Scipii on H/H. I fought many battles with Carthage, they use too many town milita. So, battles were very easy. Province of Gaetulia is very big, it shouldn't cover the large part of Sahara IMO.

I think ports should be at least 1 pixel away from cities. For example, when I blockade the port of Carthage, chain circle of the port interlaces in the middle of Carthage city.

Spoiler

(http://www.pictureshack.us/images/33423_RomeTW-BI_2014-01-04_01-29-48-384.jpg)

Maybe playing on VH/VH would change things?
For Sahara regions, this will be changed I have noticed it.
For ports, should be a simple fix.

It looks easy, especially if youre that advanced in 258 BC.

Then again I have mainly changed aesthetics, not gameplay. Gameplay will come once all visuals etc are implemented. That is why I am having you all test now, that way I know what needs to be changed.

Carthage having a lot of Town Militia may have to deal with the fact that they don't start off with many barracks.

I finished the 20 turn limit on the Seleucids and so far so good. Aside from the tower bug there was nothing else wrong. The Seleucids are well balanced and Challenging, makes you pick your fronts. I ended up losing most of my eastern provinces to the Parthians while campaigning in Anatolia to drive the Egyptians out. The Armenians eventually attacked me and were allied with the Parthians. Proudest moment for me was when my army from Seleucia united with he rabble I collected from my eastern villages I knew I couldn't hold and faced down an Armenian-Parthian attack and won. Long story short almost drove out the Egyptians from Anatolia but lost the some cities in the east to the Parthians while launching an offensive against the Armenians, now on to carthage :)

Quote from: ahowl11 on January 03, 2014, 10:13:47 PM
It has something to do with adding in the DTW walls. I wouldn't know how to fix it. I'll see if z3n knows.

Can you tell me what your export descr buildings looks like for building defenses?

Btw, it was Christmas holiday's so I was away for some time. :)



edit:

It could also be descr_engines/skeleton you need to look at, along with descr_walls, it seems like you're missing some of the code.

;EASTERN SMALL STONE/TOWN WALLS
wall
{
   culture eastern carthaginian egyptian
   level 3
   siege_tower_size medium

   straight
   {
      eastern_town_wall_straight
      breach_inner_link 0 10
      breach_outer_link 0 -10
      breach_width 10
   }

Also here's a list of files involved with walls.

data\descr_building_battle.txt
data\descr_engines.txt
data\descr_walls.txt
data\descr_building_battle\dbb_walls_*culture*.txt
data\descr_items.db
data\descr_items.txt
data\descr_items\di_*.txt
data\descr_projectile_new.txt
data\descr_oil_effect.txt

@b257
Good to hear!

@z3n
So where do you think it stems from? EDB, descr_engine_skeleton, or descr_walls?

I have made a decision on the first version. I will keep the Roman Families and I will keep the units the way they are. I want to get a release out to generate interest and I am not far away from a releasable version. I just need to do the following:

-Add in EDU edits by phalanx_man
-Add in Pinarius Horses
-Add in Roman Symbols and Banners
-Edit descr_strat to balance diplomacy and starting positions
-Make UI's for all units
-Add in RS2 settlement trees
-Add in other aesthetics
-Check for and fix any bugs/final testing
-Release

The UI's will definitely prolong the process. If ANYONE can do UI's let me know. Two people working on this would make things go a lot faster!

Well it could be any of them. Check the EDB wall defenses lines for tower level of stone walls coding ,since that could be one problem, which is why I asked in the original post to see yours. :)

See anything? I honestly don't know what to look for  ::)
building defenses
{
    levels wooden_pallisade magic_wall wooden_wall stone_wall large_stone_wall epic_stone_wall
    {
        wooden_pallisade requires factions { barbarian, carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, }
        {
            capability
            {
                wall_level 0
                tower_level 1
            }
            construction  1
            cost  400
            settlement_min town
            upgrades
            {
                wooden_wall
magic_wall
            }
        }
        magic_wall requires hidden_resource nobuild ; CAN'T AND SHOULDN'T BUILD THIS
        {
            capability
            {
            ;;;; THIS IS JUST A TOKEN BUILDING TO RAPE SILLY RTW ENGINE MECHANICS
                wall_level 1
                gate_strength 1
                tower_level 1
            }
            construction 2
            cost 800
            settlement_min town
            upgrades
            {
                wooden_wall
            }
        }
        wooden_wall requires factions { barbarian, carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, }
        {
            capability
            {
                wall_level 1
                gate_strength 1
                tower_level 1
            }
            construction  2
            cost  800
            settlement_min large_town
            upgrades
            {
                stone_wall
            }
        }
        stone_wall requires factions { carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, }
        {
            capability
            {
                wall_level 2
                tower_level 1
                gate_defences 1
                gate_strength 1
            }
            construction  3
            cost  1600
            settlement_min city
            upgrades
            {
                large_stone_wall
            }
        }
        large_stone_wall requires factions { carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, }
        {
            capability
            {
                wall_level 3
                tower_level 1
                gate_defences 2
                gate_strength 2
            }
            construction  5
            cost  3200
            settlement_min large_city
            upgrades
            {
                epic_stone_wall
            }
        }
        epic_stone_wall requires factions { carthaginian, eastern, parthia, egyptian, greek, roman, }
        {
            capability
            {
                wall_level 4
                tower_level 2
                gate_defences 2
                gate_strength 2
            }
            construction  6
            cost  6400
            settlement_min huge_city
            upgrades
            {
            }
        }
    }
    plugins
    {
    }

Everything looks fine, so then it must be a problem in descr_walls or other file.

Did you copy everything you were supposed to over?

Yeah, I believe so. I don't know what I could have missed.

I have contacted ALOT of people over at TWC for BETA testing since only b257 and CanOmer have been able to do so. I understand if you guys are busy, I've been there. I'm hoping that with more progress that a little team can be formed as I want this to be an official RTR installment.

I'm off tomorrow, and barring any surprises I should have a lot of free time. That means I will more than likely:

Add in Pinarius Horses
Add in Roman Faction Symbols and Banners
Add in phalanx man's EDU stats etc


I tested Pontus today. Had a fun go around. Ended up conquering a few regions. I monitored the other factions and everything seems balanced. Nobody is blitzing anyone else.

Have you run any ai campaigns?

ahowl - do you want me to do a round of other places? I can put beta tester calls on twitter/facebook/the org/TW Heaven if you want.  :)

@comrade_general
Have not had time :(

@Jubal
Yes, that would be great thank you

Hi!

I can do thrace and Getai/Dacia!

Go for it Cozmicus, it should only take a few hours to get both of them done :)
And welcome to exilian!

Okay the following factions still need BETA testers:

Brutii
Senate (Optional, could do this with an ai campaign)
Egypt
Parthia
Gaul
Germania
Britannia
Greek Cities
Spain


Also, along with playing a campaign with your factions, do an ai campaign as well to see how the computer controls the faction.

First thank you ahowl for notifiyng that you are doing this marvelour project :D Second I will test the Greeks and Brutii :)

Thank you Zephyronian and welcome to exilian!

Of course thank you for inviting me.

Okay finnaly Greek campaign is done :P Didin't face any bugs , but it was HARD, I mean REALLY hard. Every single roman "House" started to attack me on Sicilia :P Managed to make an alliance with Carthaginians to help me fight, so quick summary campaign ended with me conquering most of seleucid lands and destroying Macedons :D

Post some screens?

Testers: Good job so far but PLEASE give me a detailed description of the starting positions. Are they too weak, too strong, or just right? Telling me how your campaign goes is cool but I need to know how each faction starts out so I can balance them in the future. Go in depth with your analysis :)

Indepth you say? Okay.... Greeks-starting position is great ain't too hard or too easy, but the settlement near Saramatians is a bit annoying to expand with because I never expand there, I always try to conquer all of Mediterranean and then just conquer Asia or Egypt, but it's your choice how to expand this mode so yeah.

Brutii- I haven't gotten to play with it yet ;D

Okay post your results here when you do!

Ok I have my Results from Carthage and Numidia:

First Carthage:

Spoiler

Carthage needs stronger starting armies, at least one decent stack with 3 or 4 Libyan spearmen. Expansion early on is difficult and at best you can only hold one city on Sicily reinforced by the stack from carthage.

Carthage's wealth offsets the weak armies. I found the wealth produced by carthage was sufficient enough for me to build up quickly enough that the loss of a city or two made no big difference. I was able to upgrade my capital to produce better units and in turn capture Sicily.

Utica and Carthage are too close, Utica's name plate covered the city of carthage and it made it difficult to click on the city.

Overall, while carthage has a weak starting army, the wealth generated balances this out though as you can build right away and in turn produce better units very quickly, you just need to turtle a bit.

Numidia.. that's a whole other story.

Spoiler

Numidia is a tricky faction, You need a lot of tactics to win with this faction, it's starting armies are weak and its economy is no better. Sure the units in the Carthage towns are pathetic enough that you can capture them but eventually a stack from the capital shows up and ruins your day.

Capturing rebel villages helps some but not much as carthage still strikes eventually and due to the weak early troop selection you lose villages rather quickly. Maybe a better starting stack and early troop selection will Balance out this weakness and maybe a better economy too. 

Good report b257.

I can make Carthage a bit stronger.

As for Numidia, shouldn't they be a challenging faction to play as? I don't want every faction to start off easy.

Actually Carthage is already strong as it is with it's Economy. If anything just replace some of the swords men in the capital with Libyan Spears to make them look at least somewhat threatening to Rome.

As for Numidia, there is difficult and then there is "DIFFICULT" and let me say Numidia is the Latter. Nothing big in regards to its starting army just include a spear unit or 2 to at least have a chance at holding any captured settlements.

So my good friend, I've tested the Dacians like 50 years or so.

you have done an amazing job, but there still a lot of work ahead of you. Now i will only write the bigger details of what is most important:
I've played hard/hard

As a faction the Dacians starts good. They are balanced and the game is easy in the binging. you can conquer very easy a lot of cities nearby because they are very poorly defended (most of them has only 3 ilyrians mercenarys units and you can conquer almost all the cities nearby  with only recruiting a few mercenaries. SO that has to be improve a lot..
* The capital (sarmizegetusa) is perfectly placed on the map but the other city Porolissum is a disaster. In the history that city did not exist it was a Roman name for a camp they build after the Dacins war 107 AD. So that we have to change
*The dacians family tree should improve, the faction leader should be at least 15 years younger because of the age of his sons and he has to have a daughter as well.. 3 sons and a daughter..
* On the minimap there are 2 dacians provinces, One you start with witch is correct but the other one to the est is a rebel faction called dacia as well. The minimap is a disaster by the way.
* Government building , I believe the barbarians faction should stop growing after reaching a minor city. (Just like RTR platinum 1.9 witch is the best out there mode i belive ) Other ways you have to change the in game pictures for the bigger barbarian city's. and the building should take alot longer to construct. A lot longer. now after 4 turns you can get all the units witch is making the game very boring...
* The city names around Dacia are horrible. As a very passionate historian I can tell you that 90% of them did not even exits and are places total scrappy on the map. For example the city near the black sea is called Tomi ???? There was a greek city called Tomis around there so many names have to changed. Luckily i might help you with that.....

So the campaign map looks ok. The dacians gets strong quickly and there only danger are the macedonians so stay away from them... I like that actually. The Thracians are far inferior and they don't really bother you. They have problems of their owns with other factions...

I will test them later, but they looked ok as well from the AI point of view (me playing the dacians).

A big bug in on the map is a little lake between dacians and ilyrians (todays hungary) where there is a rebel naval ship going nowhere. It's actually quite funny:  the war fleet caught in a little lake for no reason at all.
Ah one more thing: the rebel factions is quite aggressive, there are a lot rebels showing up almost every year, witch can be funny sometimes.. The diplomacy between faction needs a change.  Every diplomat offers you their map in exchanged for money. and they all ask for alliances witch is stupid. a diplomat should not be able to talk to a city, i believe, if there is no governor with diplomacy skills.or with a army without a leader with diplomacy skills, they should only be able to bribe them or not.   that will make the game more interesting.
 
There should only be 1 Roman faction.. They are just in the way of each otherwise. and they should have it hard from the start, fighting rebels, greek and gauls other way they conquer everything to easy

Quote from: Cozmicus on January 11, 2014, 06:29:18 PM
There should only be 1 Roman faction.. They are just in the way of each otherwise.

ahowl's getting the Eye candy and faction positioning done with first, when he has the visual bugs solved and faction placement set then he's getting into the dirty stuff in regards to implementing a new AI and Merging the Romans as well as introducing newer factions and other stuff.

Good job Cozmicus! Excellent report.
Yes, b257 is right, the first release is essentially vanilla visually revamped along with a few tweaks to the gameplay. Here is the plan that I have, and I hope it works:

1. Finish development for first release: descr_strat tweaks based off tests, UI's, RS2 settlement trees, other graphical improvements like culture specific UI for the campaign/battle map, and maybe new barbarian walls from RTR VII.

2. Release the first full version of the RTR Project on TWC, this release needs to be big and attract a lot of attention. Many people are still very unhappy with R2 and still think RTW is better. There is not a lot of development going on for RTW mods at the moment and people over there believe that we may not see any more RTW mods. That is why I have kept the RTR Project away from TWC because I want it to be a nice and fresh surprise for everyone there.

3. Along with the release I will include a concept of what the RTR Project is about and what it represents along with the big picture outlook for the mod.

4. Hopefully at least a few more people are willing to join/contribute to this so development can speed up and cooler things can be added.

5. Development of the second version, this is where it will get fun and difficult. A lot of history will be involved here!

Brutii-almost the same as other Roman houses not to hard, but I woud like if you coud make Macedons not as agressive. Because the turn after I took Apollonia a 10 stack army came to kill me. (I know that these are not as detailed as the other people, but hey I hope they help ;) )

Thank you Zephyronian, you do a good job

Hey everyone there is a new link in the first post I had accidentally forgot to add the map to the compiled BETA, and now it's there. I tested and everything runs smoothly. That is the only thing needed to run the mod now.

News:
I was initially going to make all the UI's myself before I released but after some thought I changed my mind. I scoured other mods and basically found UI's for most every unit (except rebel units). Granted there are a few issues: The UI's are older and some don't match up with some of the unit's textures, and there are a few remaining vanilla UI's in there BUT it's good enough for a first release, especially when a lot of changes will be made anyways.
I have also been recruiting like crazy over at TWC to get some additional help for development after the first release. A few have expressed interest in joining this Project, hopefully we will see them around and they stay for awhile :)

To-Do List:
1. RS2 Settlement Trees (Hopefully Miles Invictus can get these in)
2. Siege Tower Bug (I asked z3n if he could just tackle this as I have no clue where to start)
3. Strat map Agents/Ships skins (Should add these in quickly)
4. New UI for Barbarians from BI
5. Edit descr_strat to balance out campaign
6. Final Testing
7. Release!

The last BETA will be 0.5. It will contain the following:

1. Pinarius Horses
2. Edited textures for Strat map agents/ships to match faction colors
3. UI's for most units
4. RS2 Settlment trees*
5. Fix for Siege Tower Bug*
6. BI User interface for barbarian culture*
7. phalanx_man's revised EDU*
8. descr_strat edits*

*-Still needs to be done

Then we will do some final testing.

Once testing is done we will make a preview to go along with our first release, 'The RTR Project v0.5'

Ok, here is my Report on the Britons, Gauls, and Germans

First the Britons:

Spoiler

Of the 3 Barbarian groups, the Briton's have the easiest position in my opinion. Isolated on that little island I was able to build up quickly and conquer it with no problem. The Gauls put up a good challenge and the early slow economy really prevents you from taking on  faction like the gauls or Spanish right away, given the Isolation of the Britons and how easy it is to turtle up, that's a good thing and the number of rebel ships really keep you from having naval superiority. All in all the Britons are pretty balanced for the most part.

2nd the Germanic Tribes:

Spoiler

Like the Britons I found they had a very favorable position. While not as isolated as the Britons the Germans had a good buffer between them and their chief rival the Gauls in the form of rebel settlements. By the time the Gauls and Britons reached me I had a good sized and developed kingdom which ment I was able to hold my own against them and in the case of the Britons, destroy them outright. While the Germans have a lot of settlements already their under development really slowed me down which meant I spent more time building then recruiting which balanced out their isolation rather well.

last the Gauls:

Spoiler

Oh my the gauls, what can I say about them, they are everywhere. From Iberia to Anatolia they stretch far.  I found it difficult to give a fair report on the gauls as they had a great many settlements. But from my campaign I did lose some settlements but I was able to get rich fast and conquer all of Gaul and northern Iberia rather quickly. The gauls need to be isolated to Gaul as the territory they hold in game was held by other Related celt tribes. However if you want to make it easier you could just change the name of the Gauls to the Celts since the territory in game was held by other celt Groups.

Until I implement the Celtic Tribes faction, the Gauls will be scattered but that will be fixed. I plan on them having 1-2 settlements in Gaul and 1-2 settlements in Italy for the next version.

Added a step to installation to make it easier to follow

My Scythia game at the moment:

Spoiler

I'm at 264 B.C. Everything is going ok so far. Expansion of the other factions looks to be historical, I was actually surprised that Egypt wasn't quickly eating up the Seleucids and instead had lost some territory in the Israel area to the Seleucid Empire. I find it a little odd that they have the city of Kasia at game start as it is far separated from the rest of the Scythian territories. My game CTD'd right after taking Olbia, when loading from the battle map back to the campaign map. That is probably a BI bug though. I'll finish up and edit this post later.

Edit: I have 20 turns in, I'm noticing that no one is attacking me. There were opportunities where the Greek City States and Parthia could have easily besieged me as I had my garrisons thinned out, but they did not. I might play a little more to see what happens. Other than that the factions are expanding nicely. Egypt, just barely being able to regain a territory or two from the Seleucids expanded down into the Arabian peninsula (you might want to make Arabia an unconquerable territory since it's just a large desert expanse.) It also seems to me that the Scythian horse archers might be a little over powered. Someone else may need to test that to confirm if they are.

Suggestions:

Maybe add traits for barbarian factions that would somehow represent how they were a collection of various tribes and not one centralized country. I believe RS and EB do something like this? This could probably also work for the factions like the Greek Cities and Hellenic Cities.

Get rid of the dogs and pigs of course. :P

Maybe for the city maps you could get a hold of RS devs and see if they will let you use those? I have always found it a bit painful that in RTW all the cities have massive mega buildings, massive column monuments dotting the city etc. Hegemonia has great city maps for the Greeks as well.

Parthia:

Spoiler

I was only able to play to 265 B.C. Parthia starts out with a large horse army with almost no infantry and hardly and buildings in their settlements. Debt starts building quickly unless I pretty much disband my entire army and leave myself vulnerable to the wandering Seleucid armies. I was able to take one Seleucid settlement and the Seleucids started spamming militia hoplites at their neighboring settlements making it impossible to take. This faction will be hard to balance, on one hand they need at least a barracks in their capital to recruit basic infantry. On the other hand giving them to much leverage could overpower them as they have really powerful cavalry and start out with numerous horse archers and two heavy horse units.

Other suggestions, Parthian slingers need a better skin, an empire would have to be incredibly insane or insanely rich to outfit peasants with slings in purple robes. :P

Quality report Sigma, bravo!

Yeah I get random CTD's as well but you're right I think it is a BI bug. We'll have to make sure to add that in when we release just so people don't freak out!

Scythia has Kasia because they need money to be relevant. Yes there are other ways to do this, but for now I just thought I'd give them more settlements. In ExRM 3.3, the Sarmatians had trouble expanding and they figured out that it was because they had such low income that once they had a decent army they would go into the red. If the army was defeated (it usually was) than they would slowly dip into the red and become irrelevant for the rest of the game.

I don't think anyone invades Scythian territories because there is nothing to really desire. It's pretty historical really. If you don't want constant warfare and want to raid nations, Scythia is for you!

The traits are indeed interesting. Something like, 'Aorsi Chief' or something..

Dogs and Pigs will definitely be thrown out for the next version.

As for different settlements, this is a total black area for me and my knowledge. I would need someone to walk me through implementing them since I have never looked into it. You are right and it does need to be in, I would just need help in doing so.

Well, I am experiencing a pretty nasty CTD. I am playing with 0.4 BETA with some other additions that will be part of 0.5.

I am playing a campaign as the Julii and it's a fun one as I managed to get to Messana and fight Carthage on Sicily before the Scipii could. Every battle against Carthage loaded cleanly whether it be a one on one in the field or a sally.
However against the Gauls, I get a CTD every time I go into battle against them no matter what the circumstances are. The weird thing is, I will load up my campaign, go to fight the same battle and everything loads fine. So every first battle encounter with the Gauls ends up being a CTD, the second try always works.

I am besieging Mediolanium and a Gallic army came to relieve it, CTD. Reload to same spot, try again, loads without error. After battle, second Gallic Army comes to relieve city, CTD.. I am tired so I just exited the game but I wonder what is causing this? If anyone else is experiencing these let me know. If anything when we release we need to let the players know that they should save often especially before a battle.

Disappointing Parthia playthrough posted. :P

Thanks Sigma! Parthia will definitely get a bit of a makeover before release :)

This is a bit noobish I'm sure, but I get consistent CTD's when I press Start Campaign. I imagine my attempt at a making a copy/pasted clean install folder of Rome was unsuccessful. If that sounds about right, how exactly would I make a clean install? Just a reinstallation of vanilla?

Did you delete the map.rwm and map_heights.hgt files?
They are located in data/world/maps/base

I did not. Even saw that noted in the instructions too. I imagine that should do it, trying now.

Might there be an issue with a different language version of RTW than English? If I want to add the stuff in the target line of the shortcut, Windows doesn't allow me so. I had the same problem with Hegemonia City States and could never get it started  :(

I wouldn't know.. I didn't know that it was an issue. Maybe edit the language of the stuff added to the target line?
Could you explain the problem a bit more? Also did you ever post it in TWC?

Hmm nevermind that, the rest is in English, too. But Windows doesn't allow me adding it, saying it's illegal :/ ''Please control that the data name and path are correct''

Well when I tried it the Hegemonia forum was already dead and buried and I never played another mod where I had to add a line.

Where is your game installed? If you have it installed in Program Files (x86) then that's the problem.

Not there, it's directly on my additional hard drive. I copied the whole RTW stuff and pasted it directly on G (the hard drive), then put the new data folder in it.

Hmmm Idk what to tell you since I do not have experience with this. It sounds fixable though.
I believe it has something to do with being an administrator. Post on TWC about it, I know someone could help you there.

Yeah, thanks, I'll do that or ask my IT master brother when I'm home on the weekend. Btw, I sent you a PM on TWC ;)

Hey Mausolos, I have really good experience with a freeware program for windows called "Take Ownership".
A google search of Take Ownership Windows 7 will bring up howtogeek.com with a link.
It avoids all need to turn off UAC and allows a simple right click to take ownership of files that windows says you can't edit. (for instance, If you install Rome into program files (x86), then install a mod into it, and it doesn't work due to UAC, just right click your rome folder and take ownership, and then all files will be editable, a reinstallation will not be necessary, UAC be damned)
User Access Control is a pain when modding anything on windows 7, but I've been using this program for years so I haven't dealt with it for awhile thankfully.
Hope that helps!

Cheers, I already asked my brother now and it starts without a problem. However, now it crashed when I tried to start a campaign  ::) That's my tpical luck...

Quote from: Mausolos of Caria on January 23, 2014, 09:58:06 PM
Cheers, I already asked my brother now and it starts without a problem. However, now it crashed when I tried to start a campaign  ::) That's my tpical luck...

Deleted map.rwm and map_heights.hgt files in data/world/maps/base? Because not deleting them causes crash when starting a campaign.

double post, delete

Cheers man, I forgot that. It works now  :)

Yay for Mausolos!

Glad you got so many Beta Testers ahowl, which is good since my mouse crapped out on me and I have to get a new one now :( but I'll hopefully get a new one soon and be able to beta test again :)

Thanks for letting me know. Hopefully you will get it before I release the 0.5 BETA for final testing.

Great, got everything downloaded and ready. Game launches, I pick a faction, hit "start campaign"

"Rome Total War has stopped working". Crap.


Even though I have show_err on, I don't see any error messages. Is this because I'm using Steam, and if so is there some workaround?

Quote from: Alavaria on January 29, 2014, 03:52:54 PM
Great, got everything downloaded and ready. Game launches, I pick a faction, hit "start campaign"

"Rome Total War has stopped working". Crap.


Even though I have show_err on, I don't see any error messages. Is this because I'm using Steam, and if so is there some workaround?

Deleted map.rwm and map_heights.hgt files in data/world/maps/base? Because not deleting them causes crash when starting a campaign.

Great. What about the error messages from show_err, those are really important.

Quote from: Alavaria on January 29, 2014, 04:18:52 PM
Great. What about the error messages from show_err, those are really important.

Well, I don't know about that. I use Steam and can play the mod withouth problems. Just delete that two files and try to start a campaign.

If you delete those two files, the game should work without any error. If there are errors, then something isn't right.

Yeah it works now. So that's great.

But the error messages that tell me what I've screwed up in editing a text file like the EDB or EDU are actually really useful when working with those things. It seems I can't access that with a Steam version.

I think there are checking tools people made, but they aren't able to catch everything. And without show_err help, it could be a random . anywhere in the file.

Quote from: Alavaria on January 29, 2014, 05:09:05 PM
Yeah it works now. So that's great.

But the error messages that tell me what I've screwed up in editing a text file like the EDB or EDU are actually really useful when working with those things. It seems I can't access that with a Steam version.

I think there are checking tools people made, but they aren't able to catch everything. And without show_err help, it could be a random . anywhere in the file.

Ah, I understand it now. Well, when the game crashes due to some error in the EDB or EDU that still appears, even in Steam, at least I think I've seen it. It didn't appear in your crash because the game tries the use the old map.rmw and it can't, so it just crashes, but without recognizing why it did. If you want, just try to mess around with the EDU a bit and see what happens.

I think you need to right click on your RTW game in steam, go to properties, set launch options to -show_err

Assuming this is where I can post my Macedon play test?

Either way, here it is —  finally!

A quick note before I begin: I will be referring the factions as they are called in the current build (i.e. Macedon instead of Antigonids, and Egypt instead of the Ptolemies, etc.) Also, I've commented on certain things that are not necessarily relevant to the mod's current beta state -- things that will in all likelihood get seen to sooner or later.

I somehow misplaced my screenshots from the beginning of my campaign, so I'll have to summarize the first turns.

campaign

To begin, I can say that Macedon starts in a very good position, both financially and strategically. This could be made more precarious by lessening the start treasury (which I think is 5000), but it's maybe ok, since it reflects the somewhat centralized power of the Antigonids at the time.

(I will refrain from commenting on the roster at this point, since the names are still vanilla, and I will make some notes about stats when I discuss the battles.)

The capital, Pella, starts with walls and a decent garrison, and having Thessalonica and Larissa within easy travelling distance makes for a strongly centralized position. 

However, Macedon's two isolated outposts — Corinth (in the Peloponnesus) and Chalkis (off the coast of Athens) are immediately problematic, since the player must decide whether or not to spare the resources to maintain them.

I decided early on that I would fortify Corinth against potential threats from the Greeks in order to exploit its rich trade (much as Antigonus Gonatas did historically).

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51u/cyprian2/xu36_f8f_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/ca4js813)

Reasoning that I would not get attacked within the first ten turns or so, I started by disbanding several units of  levy hoplites throughout my empire (except in Corinth). This had the double effect of boosting my city populations and saving some money off my overhead.

I focused on building mines and a port in Thessalonica and barracks and armouries in Pella and Larissa. (I was never in the red, having more than enough money to continuously upgrade my cities.)

In the first or second turn, I sent a small force north to take the lightly defended rebel city of Bylazora, which became yet another spoke in my great Macedonian wheel.

Since, I was having very little problems with unrest in my cities, and could afford to keep a large force in the field, so I decided on a blitz against the Thracians, hoping to eliminate them quickly and take their cities — notably the mining town, Philipopolis.

My leader, Antigonus Gonatas, won a heroic victory outside of Philipopolis and decimated the Thracians, killing several family members in the bargain.

Here is a picture of the marker:

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/ww60_da7_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/664js7jm)

I besieged Philipopolis but, as you can see, I was unable to follow up on my victory, because the Egyptians attacked me in Chalcis, forcing Antigonus to sail to the city's relief. (The Thracians accepted peace after paying me 2000 dinarii.)

The Egyptian raiders were few and easily dealt with, but it was an interesting development. Initially, I thought that they had landed from a fleet, which put a great big smile on my face, since, as we all know, the AI has traditionally avoided naval invasions. Then I realized that they'd actually island-hopped across the Aegean on land bridges.

While I can see how the land bridge ensures an early (and historical) conflict between Macedon and Egypt, I wonder if it would be better to have some Egyptian possessions in Thrace (perhaps Lysimacheia) to represent the encroaching power of Ptolemy Keraunos, or else have him represented as a strong rebel force (as in RTR VII).

Anyway, thanks to their magic stepping stones, the Egyptians were theoretically able to raid Chalcis at will, but refrained from doing so after I pushed them out that one time. Instead, they gathered a lot of highly threatening skirmisher armies around Naxos and did absolutely nothing besides.

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_0a8_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/362js7j3)

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_92c_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/779js7j2)

A historical alliance is concluded between Macedon and the Seleucids against their common Egyptian enemy.

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51u/cyprian2/xu36_631_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/1f3js811)

Neat to see this guy hanging out just outside Athens, on holiday, it seems. Quite the collection of ancillaries!

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_8ca_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/e06js7j4)

Another interesting thing happened on Chalcis, when small rebel army, consisting of some Rhodian slingers and cretan archers — ka-ching! — spawned. Given my massive financial resources, I attempted to bride them — and they accepted!

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51u/cyprian2/xu36_a7d_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/6c9js815)

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_682_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/0efjs7j5)

They supplied my garrison on Chalcis, and I looked forward to unleashing the Cretans on some unsuspecting Nubians. Sadly, the Egyptians weren't biting.

In 266, my finances were very good, and I was able to resume my war against the Thracians.

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_3d9_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/659js7j1)

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/ww60_bab_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/a3bjs7iz)

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51u/cyprian2/xu36_91b_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/95djs816)

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_1d0_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/2d4js7j6)

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_cd3_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/c23js7j7)

Battle

I'll give a quick run-through of my battle against the Illyrians.

Since they attacked me, I positioned myself on some rough terrain and waited for the assault.

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_e31_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/1d8js7j8)

My generic Greek archers, with sliver missile upgrades, are cheap units that pack a punch.

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_333_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/669js7j9)

There was nothing subtle in the Thracian battle plan. It was an all out charge.

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_831_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/501js7jb)

My levy hoplites and pikemen, granted they were upped in both armour and experience, simply stood still and devoured the oncoming falxmen. I was always under the impression that falxmen are to be feared by pikes, but these guys crumbled like cardboard cutouts. At the same time, had they attacked from the flank rather than head-on, the results might have been different. 

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_4f8_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/b92js7ja)

It was only a matter of time before the general charged my ranks and died.

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_f36_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/1fbjs7jc)

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_c17_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/d33js7jd)

Annoyingly, the garrison in Philipopolis stayed put, so I wasn't able to take the city this turn. Oh, well. I took it next turn:

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu36_5d8_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/c13js7jg)

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu37_e89_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/930js7jo)

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51u/cyprian2/xu37_8ac_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/a59js81e)

As you can see, I've got another army (commanded by my faction heir) advancing on the last Thracian city, Oresteia. The gig is almost up for Thrace. And yet, in a massive strategical fail, they have a massive stack on vacation up in Dacia. If that stack had descended on me  at Philipopolis, things might not have been so peachy.

Luckily, my faction leader thought to fortify the bridge crossing against such a possibility.

[Overview]

Playing on hard/hard has proven smooth sailing so far. That said, I haven't faced the Romans or the Greeks yet, so that may change.

Elsewhere in the world, the Carthies are doing what they should in Spain:

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu37_f57_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/695js7jl)

And wrestling with the Scipii on Sicily:

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu37_95a_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/4c0js7ji)

Meanwhile, the Brutii are encoreching from the west and it looks like they might come to blows with the Greeks soon.

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i51u/cyprian2/xu37_e5c_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/4f5js81h)

And, in the North of Spain, Atlantis is rediscovered:

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i51r/cyprian2/xu37_55c_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/5e4js7jn)

(The glitch went away next turn.  :P )

Well, that's all for now. WIll report back with more when I've had a chance to face some Romans!

That's a great report, my friend! I love to see the Ptolemies attacking Macedon in the Aegean, no mod has done that so far. And I thoroughly agree, that Ptolemaios Keraunos should be simulated somehow, but I think ahowl already mentioned it somewhere and plans to adress this issue.

Reading your report also got me wondering, where and when we should discuss the map in regards to which faction owns which settlement? Obviously we are still thinking about what towns to choose and perhaps there will be a completely new map, but we shoud keep in mind to revise that situation as well.

Quote from: Mausolos of Caria on January 30, 2014, 11:04:19 PM
That's a great report, my friend! I love to see the Ptolemies attacking Macedon in the Aegean, no mod has done that so far. And I thoroughly agree, that Ptolemaios Keraunos should be simulated somehow, but I think ahowl already mentioned it somewhere and plans to adress this issue.

Reading your report also got me wondering, where and when we should discuss the map in regards to which faction owns which settlement? Obviously we are still thinking about what towns to choose and perhaps there will be a completely new map, but we shoud keep in mind to revise that situation as well.

Oh, don't worry, ahowl loves opening new threads.

In regards to Cyprian post, nice report. From what I see, the economy seems pretty loose. We need to tighten that! Also, I dislike the island hopping system, one reasonable invasion from Anatolia to mainland Greece should take time and logistics, not a merely jump from island to island. The AI in BI is pretty good conducting naval invasions (in fact, it's probably the best in the series in that aspect) so I don't think it's needed. It's good to see Carthage behave historically.

Excellent report!
Ptolemy Keraunos will be present when everything is said and done :)
Thrace is weak but that's fine since they will become Illyrians
I like Egypt being involved in Greek affairs.

Well BI did do naval invasions but once landed the armies were stuck. Who knows we can test it.

As far as city ownership, once I change the faction list, we will do that.

Hi all

just re-installed everything, patched and dl + install mod. Looks like its working OK.

I will play the campaign as Spain since I did not see anyone sign up for that. Will post my findings again in a few days.

------
By the way it took me 5 goes to get past the captcha on this forum... I like rearranging pictures of cats just as much as the next person, but I'm just saying  ;)

Quote from: CaliGen on February 01, 2014, 01:11:14 AM
Hi all

just re-installed everything, patched and dl + install mod. Looks like its working OK.

I will play the campaign as Spain since I did not see anyone sign up for that. Will post my findings again in a few days.

------
By the way it took me 5 goes to get past the captcha on this forum... I like rearranging pictures of cats just as much as the next person, but I'm just saying  ;)

Yeah, that's kind boring in the beggining. After a certain number of posts, it's gone.

Eager to see a Spain Report!

General comments:
Load time- seemed longer by about 50% compared to similar graphics settings on vanilla

Load screen- very gray and depressing. Does the realism have to also apply to the load screens. I was just playing "Megas Alexandros" and they had bright yellow loading screens. Just saying, a little color goes a long way.

Campaign map- very nice. Not sure if this is a new map or one that has been jacked from another mod. I particularly liked detail on the alps. Did you consider the 4 season year mod? BE did this I recall, and you got longer life out of your characters. The movement was reduced in winter in the cold parts of the map, and reduced during the summer in the desert parts of the map.
Also, there is a settlement called "Arse" on the Mediterranean coast of Spain... consider adding a pronunciation accent or something to stop players mentally pronouncing it as is. While on the topic of "Arse", just to the South is a dock and a river mouth. Graphical faults with both. In fact, in several places on the map I looked the coast looked a bit roughly drawn, which is a shame because other parts of it are lovely. E.g. the river delta South of Patavium looks like it was done free-hand in paint. Just looks like it needs some attention in places. Other appearance problems I suspect might be improved by  not placing docks near rivers, or roads going over rivers near docks, etc. In some places, the coast has been extended into the river mouth, but this doesn't look good in several places. Also, these estuaries seem to be irresistible to groups of pirate fleets.
-Also noted that it is now difficult to see at a glance what level the port of a settlement has. The fishing village looks not obviously different from the upgrades. I need to use the tooltips to remember I can shelter my fleet there.
-Also felt that the size of some of the provinces was unrealistic. Again to compare with the mod Megas Alexandros, there are 4 large "wasteland" areas which cannot be taken by anyone. I think they did it by having inaccessible rebel cities hidden in the far bottom left corner. In this map, the province "aethiopia" covers most of africa. In reality, these vast desert areas, e.g. the center of the Arabian peninsula, would not have been governable by factions, nor would Empires have had any interest in them because there was nothing there apart from a few bedoins. E.g. Alexander's empire simply flowed around the desert lands in the middle of the Arabian peninsula.

Character traits- it seems that governors can usually be safely left in settlements without them becoming fat, corrupt perverts. This is good, because in vanilla RTW they became a hindrance and often the settlement would be better off in terms of happiness and income when they were camped outside the walls.

Settlements/Empire management
-No idea how a Spanish player would hold a large empire together over these distances from capital. Their highest happiness bonus from temples is 30%. Add 10% from bardic circle (but then the governors become alcoholics...) and I anticipate this is still not enough to keep large cities under your rule.
-Spanish have governor's house buildings up to Imperial palace, but there is no graphic, and "this text should never appear in game" appears in the description. Neither are their any upgrades available for buildings (e.g. foundry) above minor city.

Battle map- I was really impressed with the battle map. It was incredibly real-looking compared to vanilla. The trees looked great,  and the lay of the land seemed much more random and believable. Really felt like I was there in the hills of Spain. Somethings I noted were that the trees inside the settlements were giant and out of proportion as in vanilla... could they be made more like the trees outside the city?

Unit skins- All the units generally appeared gray and depressing. I guess that was intentional since ordinary soldiers would probably not have had dyed clothing etc.  Also, nice to see barbarians of the far north dressed slightly more appropriately for the Russian winters for once.
-In the unit card for "boats" (not large boats) there is something odd.
-I noted that the voices for Spanish general heavy cavalry is Eastern, while the ordinary troops usually speak in Northern barbarian accents.

Combat dynamics- I was playing on H/H and the game-play is a bit different from what I am used to. More casualties, even from charging 3 cavalry units into the rear of a weak infantry unit still getting losses. Need to much more careful of generals. Enemy generals do not stay alive for a few minutes when mobbed after all other enemy is dead, as would be the case often in vanilla. Generally cavalry appear weaker than in vanilla. Can no longer just charge a stack of cavalry and expect to rout the enemy. Need to think of tactics, which is hard (but rewarding when they work) and basically need to retrain the stack after every battle, which is expensive!

I have a few suggestions if we are talking about combat realism:
- galloping your cavalry through your own infantry might cause a few casualties. In vanilla when a unit was in phalanx (e.g. phalangites), charging your own cavalry through would result in losses. Is there any way to duplicate this?
- units set to fire at will should not fire at an enemy unit which has just broken in combat with one of your own units, while the 2 units are still mixed together. The volley ends up killing more of your own unit because it hits them in the back. Units should never fire when there is risk of hitting allies unless they are specifically ordered to do so IMO.
-The AI is still doing stupid things like it would do in vanilla. E.g. pointlessly running between 2 points while your army outflanks them or pointlessly running around while you shoot them. In one siege, the AI did sally out of their gate (sabotaged by my spy) instead of just standing their and being pin-cushioned by my skirmishers as they would do in Vanilla.

CTDs
So far 5 CTD. None generated any error msg even though -show_err was activated. None have been repeatable, after reloading the game and replying the same trigger, no CTD occurred. This makes me think that the crash might be somehow to do with a randomly generated thing each battle (terrain?) which causes some battles to crash and not at another time. Also, I recall vanilla BI had occasional crashes for me, but did not remember them to be this frequent.
1st- Happened after a battle (not a siege, just mopping up some brigands in the countryside). I saw the campaign map for about 1 second then ctd. No character in my army. I am thinking maybe it was the "man of the hour" promotion scroll that usually appears in such circumstances, but at another occasion in my game this appeared without any crash, so I don't know.
2nd- occurred immediately when I clicked assault on the settlement just NW of Narbo. Held by Gaul, my army was a full stack of mercs, dogs and Spanish light/missile troops. Next time I played this battle, there was no ctd and the loading screen appeared as per normal.
3rd- half way through loading screen for another assault- celtiberia/gauls
4th- half way through loading screen for a large battle with gauls
5th- half way through loading screen for battle (sally from besieged settlement against gauls)

Notes on Spanish campaign
Part#1 Establishing my faction as the dominant power in Hispania
- I was just able to snatch up all the independent settlements in the Iberian peninsula. Tense few opening turns and I was almost outpaced by gaul and carthage. I was spread way too thin but they chose not to break the peace.
- I note that Spain can no longer build stone walls as they could in BI. I am a defensive player so this makes this faction undesirable for me. If that is due to historic accuracy, then fair enough, I know that is what this mod is about. Lack of stone walls is made up for by the wooden walls which are very impressive. Loving the new siege equipment. The siege tower that has the bridge which swings down from above has a minor graphical fault: the ropes which hold the bridge in the upright position remain pointing out into the air once the bridge has swung down.
- The description for the Spanish campaign was so gloomy that I was too cautious to attack either Gaul or Carthage. I allied with Carthage instead, and apart from sending the odd lone character to loiter around my lands (even though they immediately cry "transgression!" if I even step on their land for a short cut), they have left me alone.
Gaul have just stayed behind their walls in Celtiberia, while I have seen them taking a few independent settlements in Southern Gaul. No sign of Rome until their diplomat appeared out of the fog of war to propose an alliance, but I am building the strength of my armies in Narbo, with another stack poised to take celtiberia and another to sweep down on the Carthaginians in the south. Both cities had about a half stack of weak troops. I was considering waiting until Rome declared war on each of my rivals, then to attack them in the back and then hopefully they would sue for peace once I have the territories I want.
- due to the amount of mining available in Spain, combined with a lot of coastal settlements for sea trade, and fertile land, I became the richest faction by 236BC and have kept that position since, despite building everything possible and maintaining an ever-growing army of mercs and my own troops.
I know that historically Iberia had much gold and silver, and that is what brought the Carthaginians, but not sure if it is realistic that a barbarian kingdom would be so much richer than other more civilized Empires at this time?
- A large cash flow through my treasury has allowed me to hire a lot of Spanish mercenaries to bolster my stacks. I note that the scutarii (which I cannot yet recruit) are stronger than the mercs, even though the skin/unit card is virtually identical.
-Optimizing 3 settlements in the north of my lands for infantry, cavalry and missile production respectively.
- So far the campaign description has not matched the gameplay experience. Far from being very hard, it has been plain sailing so far ... I feel like I am in a strong position, but then I have not attacked any other factions yet. Suspect as soon as I do, the Carthaginian fleet will blockade some of my sea trade, and possibly land a revenge army via their fleets, and gaul will start sending warband
after warband from the north, as they tend to do in vanilla to anyone who takes one of their cities. Considering attack on rome before the Marian reforms (not sure what reform triggers are in this mod). Synchronized landing of a distraction/raiding party from a fleet into southern italy and transalpine land war into northern Italy methinks. I have a general whose command
rating is nearing 10 when attacking. I could use his stack in a blitz maneuver to take several settlements before the romans know what is happening.
- brigands are appearing a lot on my lands. I am trying to build forts and watchtowers to keep this from happening so much, but at least it is giving my units experience before the real fighting begins.
-A Julli spy was caught and executed by my spy garrisoned in narbo. Soon after, the Julii army appeared on my side of the alps- they have declared war on the Greeks to take the Greek colony there. I will be v. annoyed if they attack me instead of declaring war on Gaul. Maybe I should have let Gaul take Narbo =D
-Keeping my diplomat in Southern Gaul to contact them if and when I need to, I need to train another and land him in Africa.

Part II: First Blood
Suddenly- Carthage declared war on Numidia. I was positioning for an assault over a few turns, and then the roman factions all declared war on Carthage (presumably over territories in Sicily, but nothing near me). So, I thought the time was right and launched my war on Carthage's forces now dotted over southern Spain. I besieged their settlement while mopping up the wandering character and units that had been in my lands. Took the city after a hard battle (despite outnumbering enemy almost 2:1 I took a lot of casualties on the battlements in the hard melee). I spent a year retraining my stack and built some boats in the adjacent settlements. I could see Tingis across the straight of Gibraltar, Carthage had foolishly emptied their garrison (presumably to siege some of Numidia's settlements on the African coast to the east). Unloaded my freshly trained stack and took Tingis with minimal resistance. So now I have a foothold in Africa 257BC, and it looks stable because Numidia are hostile to Carthage, and are acting as a buffer between me and the Carthaginians. Their fleets seemed to move away from Spain once I had taken Tingis, which was nice. I have almost 2 full stacks in the North of Spain now. Lots and lots of Spanish Mercenaries + wardogs just waiting for the Romans and the Gauls to make their fatal move against each other before I lay waste to Northern Italy and cripple the heartlands of the Julii. Mwhahaha

Part III: Gaulish-Roman alliance of terror
I was feeling confident now, but Gaul decided to declare war on me (256BC). Still confident, I decided to simply repel their small invasion with my stacks and wait for Rome to attack them. Rome however had different plans, and the Julii declared war on me in 254BC, riding rough shod over my existing alliance with the Brutii, and triggering the Senate and the other roman factions to declare war the next turn. Damn. So for the last 10-20 or so turns I have been fighting a desperate campaign in Southern Gaul against huge numbers of gauls and romans, and Roman fleets are blockading my Mediterranean trade... 2 of my settlements there have been sacked by the Gauls and the Romans, only for me to retake them in the next turn. My main strength needs to be in 2 or 3 places at once. I noted that the Gauls are using Barbarian mercs, so I have started hiring every single merc that appears. These weak troops are not doing to well against the Roman armies being sent against me, but they hold the line against Gaulish warbands just long enough for my cavalry to flank their line and charge their rear. Every battle is the same, I rout more than I kill, but there are high losses. This situation is very difficult for me, but neither of my enemies (or indeed Carthage for that matter) accept my offers of peace. I am having to kill a large stack of either Romans or Gauls each turn. Merc units are decimated and merged together so I just keep hiring more. My own troops are chronically under-strength because I prefer to retrain them than merge. My now faction leader (10 star command on attack) is still alive, but he is getting into middle age now. Turn by desperate turn, I have repelled each army sent against me. Bringing up literally every supporting unit being trained in the Northern Spanish settlements each turn, I reached a stalemate with Gaul. Once my back was covered, finally I was able to siege the previously Greek now Roman held colony with stone walls (I forget the name) just before the Alps. The hammer-blow retaliation from the Romans was swift and brutal. They attacked me with 2 armies that appeared out of the fog: 1 large stack and another smaller army, and the roman garrison sallied out as well. This battle was the bloodiest so far... The terrain was steep and wooded. Thankfully, I was able to line my experienced mercs in one steep corner and wait for the uncountable number of hastati units, supported by velites and light cavalry to trudge towards me. Arrogantly, the Romans did not unite their vast forces but instead each took its own course directly towards me. All my dogs and pila were spent on the first attack, but that army was routed. The next 2 armies were winded after their long march, and each routed once I had killed their generals with an all or nothing cavalry charge round their flanks. Wow, what a hard fought victory. My losses were >50%, and I get a site of famous victory marker on the map. I slaughtered the remaining Garrison in the city on my next turn with my exhausted troops. I managed to retrain/merge most of my army, and now the city is sieged every few turns by the Romans. So my faction leader is now learning the art of defense as well as his attack skills. The stone walls help a lot, and the situation is stable while I build in Southern Gaul into a military-industrial powerhouse. Finally get access to Scutarii and bull warriors and there is a ray of hope as I cower behind my captured walls, because lord help the Spanish when principes and triarii appear on the scene. Need to move fast, but always I am held up by their armies (how do they even train so many?) Really would be a nice time for Britania or Germania to declare war on Gaul, but everyone seems against me now. My only allies are the Numidians, and I suspect they may be getting slowly chewed up by Carthage.

I will definitely continue this campaign for a while, but I always enjoy the start of games more than managing a large Empire. Is there an earlier stable version of total realism? I think I would enjoy that more than this version which seems in progress, although I will surely download the thing when it is finished... thanks for the mod, enjoying this campaign a lot.

Also: there was a bug when sieging a settlement. I drew my siege tower against the stone walls, and once it was in position none of my units seemed capable of entering it. I would click them and order them on to the ramparts, but they immediately said back "order completed" without moving. Tried to get a unit to re-position the tower, but it could no longer be selected. Luckily, I always make extra siege equipment, and I had 2 spare rams and eventually took the settlement in the low-tech manner.

Quote from: CaliGen on February 02, 2014, 01:40:35 PM
General comments:
Load time- seemed longer by about 50% compared to similar graphics settings on vanilla

Load screen- very gray and depressing. Does the realism have to also apply to the load screens. I was just playing "Megas Alexandros" and they had bright yellow loading screens. Just saying, a little color goes a long way.

Campaign map- very nice. Not sure if this is a new map or one that has been jacked from another mod. I particularly liked detail on the alps. Did you consider the 4 season year mod? BE did this I recall, and you got longer life out of your characters. The movement was reduced in winter in the cold parts of the map, and reduced during the summer in the desert parts of the map.
Also, there is a settlement called "Arse" on the Mediterranean coast of Spain... consider adding a pronunciation accent or something to stop players mentally pronouncing it as is. While on the topic of "Arse", just to the South is a dock and a river mouth. Graphical faults with both. In fact, in several places on the map I looked the coast looked a bit roughly drawn, which is a shame because other parts of it are lovely. E.g. the river delta South of Patavium looks like it was done free-hand in paint. Just looks like it needs some attention in places. Other appearance problems I suspect might be improved by  not placing docks near rivers, or roads going over rivers near docks, etc. In some places, the coast has been extended into the river mouth, but this doesn't look good in several places. Also, these estuaries seem to be irresistible to groups of pirate fleets.
-Also noted that it is now difficult to see at a glance what level the port of a settlement has. The fishing village looks not obviously different from the upgrades. I need to use the tooltips to remember I can shelter my fleet there.
-Also felt that the size of some of the provinces was unrealistic. Again to compare with the mod Megas Alexandros, there are 4 large "wasteland" areas which cannot be taken by anyone. I think they did it by having inaccessible rebel cities hidden in the far bottom left corner. In this map, the province "aethiopia" covers most of africa. In reality, these vast desert areas, e.g. the center of the Arabian peninsula, would not have been governable by factions, nor would Empires have had any interest in them because there was nothing there apart from a few bedoins. E.g. Alexander's empire simply flowed around the desert lands in the middle of the Arabian peninsula.

Character traits- it seems that governors can usually be safely left in settlements without them becoming fat, corrupt perverts. This is good, because in vanilla RTW they became a hindrance and often the settlement would be better off in terms of happiness and income when they were camped outside the walls.

Settlements/Empire management
-No idea how a Spanish player would hold a large empire together over these distances from capital. Their highest happiness bonus from temples is 30%. Add 10% from bardic circle (but then the governors become alcoholics...) and I anticipate this is still not enough to keep large cities under your rule.
-Spanish have governor's house buildings up to Imperial palace, but there is no graphic, and "this text should never appear in game" appears in the description. Neither are their any upgrades available for buildings (e.g. foundry) above minor city.

Battle map- I was really impressed with the battle map. It was incredibly real-looking compared to vanilla. The trees looked great,  and the lay of the land seemed much more random and believable. Really felt like I was there in the hills of Spain. Somethings I noted were that the trees inside the settlements were giant and out of proportion as in vanilla... could they be made more like the trees outside the city?

Unit skins- All the units generally appeared gray and depressing. I guess that was intentional since ordinary soldiers would probably not have had dyed clothing etc.  Also, nice to see barbarians of the far north dressed slightly more appropriately for the Russian winters for once.
-In the unit card for "boats" (not large boats) there is something odd.
-I noted that the voices for Spanish general heavy cavalry is Eastern, while the ordinary troops usually speak in Northern barbarian accents.

Combat dynamics- I was playing on H/H and the game-play is a bit different from what I am used to. More casualties, even from charging 3 cavalry units into the rear of a weak infantry unit still getting losses. Need to much more careful of generals. Enemy generals do not stay alive for a few minutes when mobbed after all other enemy is dead, as would be the case often in vanilla. Generally cavalry appear weaker than in vanilla. Can no longer just charge a stack of cavalry and expect to rout the enemy. Need to think of tactics, which is hard (but rewarding when they work) and basically need to retrain the stack after every battle, which is expensive!

I have a few suggestions if we are talking about combat realism:
- galloping your cavalry through your own infantry might cause a few casualties. In vanilla when a unit was in phalanx (e.g. phalangites), charging your own cavalry through would result in losses. Is there any way to duplicate this?
- units set to fire at will should not fire at an enemy unit which has just broken in combat with one of your own units, while the 2 units are still mixed together. The volley ends up killing more of your own unit because it hits them in the back. Units should never fire when there is risk of hitting allies unless they are specifically ordered to do so IMO.
-The AI is still doing stupid things like it would do in vanilla. E.g. pointlessly running between 2 points while your army outflanks them or pointlessly running around while you shoot them. In one siege, the AI did sally out of their gate (sabotaged by my spy) instead of just standing their and being pin-cushioned by my skirmishers as they would do in Vanilla.

CTDs
So far 5 CTD. None generated any error msg even though -show_err was activated. None have been repeatable, after reloading the game and replying the same trigger, no CTD occurred. This makes me think that the crash might be somehow to do with a randomly generated thing each battle (terrain?) which causes some battles to crash and not at another time. Also, I recall vanilla BI had occasional crashes for me, but did not remember them to be this frequent.
1st- Happened after a battle (not a siege, just mopping up some brigands in the countryside). I saw the campaign map for about 1 second then ctd. No character in my army. I am thinking maybe it was the "man of the hour" promotion scroll that usually appears in such circumstances, but at another occasion in my game this appeared without any crash, so I don't know.
2nd- occurred immediately when I clicked assault on the settlement just NW of Narbo. Held by Gaul, my army was a full stack of mercs, dogs and Spanish light/missile troops. Next time I played this battle, there was no ctd and the loading screen appeared as per normal.
3rd- half way through loading screen for another assault- celtiberia/gauls
4th- half way through loading screen for a large battle with gauls
5th- half way through loading screen for battle (sally from besieged settlement against gauls)

Notes on Spanish campaign
Part#1 Establishing my faction as the dominant power in Hispania
- I was just able to snatch up all the independent settlements in the Iberian peninsula. Tense few opening turns and I was almost outpaced by gaul and carthage. I was spread way too thin but they chose not to break the peace.
- I note that Spain can no longer build stone walls as they could in BI. I am a defensive player so this makes this faction undesirable for me. If that is due to historic accuracy, then fair enough, I know that is what this mod is about. Lack of stone walls is made up for by the wooden walls which are very impressive. Loving the new siege equipment. The siege tower that has the bridge which swings down from above has a minor graphical fault: the ropes which hold the bridge in the upright position remain pointing out into the air once the bridge has swung down.
- The description for the Spanish campaign was so gloomy that I was too cautious to attack either Gaul or Carthage. I allied with Carthage instead, and apart from sending the odd lone character to loiter around my lands (even though they immediately cry "transgression!" if I even step on their land for a short cut), they have left me alone.
Gaul have just stayed behind their walls in Celtiberia, while I have seen them taking a few independent settlements in Southern Gaul. No sign of Rome until their diplomat appeared out of the fog of war to propose an alliance, but I am building the strength of my armies in Narbo, with another stack poised to take celtiberia and another to sweep down on the Carthaginians in the south. Both cities had about a half stack of weak troops. I was considering waiting until Rome declared war on each of my rivals, then to attack them in the back and then hopefully they would sue for peace once I have the territories I want.
- due to the amount of mining available in Spain, combined with a lot of coastal settlements for sea trade, and fertile land, I became the richest faction by 236BC and have kept that position since, despite building everything possible and maintaining an ever-growing army of mercs and my own troops.
I know that historically Iberia had much gold and silver, and that is what brought the Carthaginians, but not sure if it is realistic that a barbarian kingdom would be so much richer than other more civilized Empires at this time?
- A large cash flow through my treasury has allowed me to hire a lot of Spanish mercenaries to bolster my stacks. I note that the scutarii (which I cannot yet recruit) are stronger than the mercs, even though the skin/unit card is virtually identical.
-Optimizing 3 settlements in the north of my lands for infantry, cavalry and missile production respectively.
- So far the campaign description has not matched the gameplay experience. Far from being very hard, it has been plain sailing so far ... I feel like I am in a strong position, but then I have not attacked any other factions yet. Suspect as soon as I do, the Carthaginian fleet will blockade some of my sea trade, and possibly land a revenge army via their fleets, and gaul will start sending warband
after warband from the north, as they tend to do in vanilla to anyone who takes one of their cities. Considering attack on rome before the Marian reforms (not sure what reform triggers are in this mod). Synchronized landing of a distraction/raiding party from a fleet into southern italy and transalpine land war into northern Italy methinks. I have a general whose command
rating is nearing 10 when attacking. I could use his stack in a blitz maneuver to take several settlements before the romans know what is happening.
- brigands are appearing a lot on my lands. I am trying to build forts and watchtowers to keep this from happening so much, but at least it is giving my units experience before the real fighting begins.
-A Julli spy was caught and executed by my spy garrisoned in narbo. Soon after, the Julii army appeared on my side of the alps- they have declared war on the Greeks to take the Greek colony there. I will be v. annoyed if they attack me instead of declaring war on Gaul. Maybe I should have let Gaul take Narbo =D
-Keeping my diplomat in Southern Gaul to contact them if and when I need to, I need to train another and land him in Africa.

Part II: First Blood
Suddenly- Carthage declared war on Numidia. I was positioning for an assault over a few turns, and then the roman factions all declared war on Carthage (presumably over territories in Sicily, but nothing near me). So, I thought the time was right and launched my war on Carthage's forces now dotted over southern Spain. I besieged their settlement while mopping up the wandering character and units that had been in my lands. Took the city after a hard battle (despite outnumbering enemy almost 2:1 I took a lot of casualties on the battlements in the hard melee). I spent a year retraining my stack and built some boats in the adjacent settlements. I could see Tingis across the straight of Gibraltar, Carthage had foolishly emptied their garrison (presumably to siege some of Numidia's settlements on the African coast to the east). Unloaded my freshly trained stack and took Tingis with minimal resistance. So now I have a foothold in Africa 257BC, and it looks stable because Numidia are hostile to Carthage, and are acting as a buffer between me and the Carthaginians. Their fleets seemed to move away from Spain once I had taken Tingis, which was nice. I have almost 2 full stacks in the North of Spain now. Lots and lots of Spanish Mercenaries + wardogs just waiting for the Romans and the Gauls to make their fatal move against each other before I lay waste to Northern Italy and cripple the heartlands of the Julii. Mwhahaha

Part III: Gaulish-Roman alliance of terror
I was feeling confident now, but Gaul decided to declare war on me (256BC). Still confident, I decided to simply repel their small invasion with my stacks and wait for Rome to attack them. Rome however had different plans, and the Julii declared war on me in 254BC, riding rough shod over my existing alliance with the Brutii, and triggering the Senate and the other roman factions to declare war the next turn. Damn. So for the last 10-20 or so turns I have been fighting a desperate campaign in Southern Gaul against huge numbers of gauls and romans, and Roman fleets are blockading my Mediterranean trade... 2 of my settlements there have been sacked by the Gauls and the Romans, only for me to retake them in the next turn. My main strength needs to be in 2 or 3 places at once. I noted that the Gauls are using Barbarian mercs, so I have started hiring every single merc that appears. These weak troops are not doing to well against the Roman armies being sent against me, but they hold the line against Gaulish warbands just long enough for my cavalry to flank their line and charge their rear. Every battle is the same, I rout more than I kill, but there are high losses. This situation is very difficult for me, but neither of my enemies (or indeed Carthage for that matter) accept my offers of peace. I am having to kill a large stack of either Romans or Gauls each turn. Merc units are decimated and merged together so I just keep hiring more. My own troops are chronically under-strength because I prefer to retrain them than merge. My now faction leader (10 star command on attack) is still alive, but he is getting into middle age now. Turn by desperate turn, I have repelled each army sent against me. Bringing up literally every supporting unit being trained in the Northern Spanish settlements each turn, I reached a stalemate with Gaul. Once my back was covered, finally I was able to siege the previously Greek now Roman held colony with stone walls (I forget the name) just before the Alps. The hammer-blow retaliation from the Romans was swift and brutal. They attacked me with 2 armies that appeared out of the fog: 1 large stack and another smaller army, and the roman garrison sallied out as well. This battle was the bloodiest so far... The terrain was steep and wooded. Thankfully, I was able to line my experienced mercs in one steep corner and wait for the uncountable number of hastati units, supported by velites and light cavalry to trudge towards me. Arrogantly, the Romans did not unite their vast forces but instead each took its own course directly towards me. All my dogs and pila were spent on the first attack, but that army was routed. The next 2 armies were winded after their long march, and each routed once I had killed their generals with an all or nothing cavalry charge round their flanks. Wow, what a hard fought victory. My losses were >50%, and I get a site of famous victory marker on the map. I slaughtered the remaining Garrison in the city on my next turn with my exhausted troops. I managed to retrain/merge most of my army, and now the city is sieged every few turns by the Romans. So my faction leader is now learning the art of defense as well as his attack skills. The stone walls help a lot, and the situation is stable while I build in Southern Gaul into a military-industrial powerhouse. Finally get access to Scutarii and bull warriors and there is a ray of hope as I cower behind my captured walls, because lord help the Spanish when principes and triarii appear on the scene. Need to move fast, but always I am held up by their armies (how do they even train so many?) Really would be a nice time for Britania or Germania to declare war on Gaul, but everyone seems against me now. My only allies are the Numidians, and I suspect they may be getting slowly chewed up by Carthage.

I will definitely continue this campaign for a while, but I always enjoy the start of games more than managing a large Empire. Is there an earlier stable version of total realism? I think I would enjoy that more than this version which seems in progress, although I will surely download the thing when it is finished... thanks for the mod, enjoying this campaign a lot.

Well, that's a lenghty post!
I'll try my best to adress some of your points.

- First of all, the mod you are playing it's basicly vanilla retextured with a different map. This in no way represents the final release, as after the BETA the mod will be almost remade.

- I agree with you, the current loading screens are dull and boring but they are also a placeholder.

- The map we are using is from another mod, Rome Total History I believe, and the cities from RTR. After the BETA will be having a new map. The giant provinces is a design choice. We feel that it's much more important to correctly represent the key points of the map (Italy, Greece, North Africa, etc) with historical important cities than to have an equal distribution for all the map.

- The battlemap vegetation is indeed amazing. All credits go for Roma Surrectum team for their work. I believe ahowl is working in the city trees.

- The units a just vanilla units retextured. See them as a placeholder. We're hoping to adapt units from RTRPE and RTRVII and create some, but, currently, we are looking for a skinner.

- Regarding the combat mechanics: good.

- I really like your first two suggestions but I don't know if that's possible to do. In regards to the battle AI, well, it was never challenging in BI, more in the Alexander expansion. I think I saw around an adaptation of Germanicus BAI for Rome Total War, I'll check that.

- Yes, currently we are having quite some non-repeatable CTDs, we'll be seeing that.

- The stone wall bug is known and ahwol is working on it.

All and all, thanks for that very informative and usefull post. I'm glad you are having fun.

Bercor pretty much answered everything. You will enjoy the next version which should be out very soon. Great report!

My siege of Oresteia.

Spoiler

(http://img10.imagefra.me/i524/cyprian2/ww60_603_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/b2cjs8zc)
(http://img15.imagefra.me/i524/cyprian2/ww61_324_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/fb3js8ze)

Those are some tall ladders! CTD soon after ordering my men to the walls. Nice siege tower, by the way.

Spoiler

(http://img15.imagefra.me/i524/cyprian2/ww61_47d_uc6fw.png) (http://i.imagefra.me/5d6js8zg)

Yup that's a bug that I am trying to fix!