Ok, I finally had time to test the 0.5 version a bit and here's some things that stood out:
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Sprites- the correct ones are not implemented, as you can see by this picture:
Spoiler
(http://gyazo.com/1c1d03f8fc2ea12240b535f9f8c118f6.png)
All factions are using the old sprites.
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Animations- the hoplite and phalangite animations are not the best, let's put it this way. Here's a screenshot of battle between Spartans Hoplites and the Sacred Band:
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(http://gyazo.com/e0527f38c697e8c691e60ce423517d05.png)
Some of the soldiers are attacking the enemy with their spears pointed upwards. Look, how much neat/less crumbled look the XC hoplite animations in comparison:
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(http://gyazo.com/1b7b4c5118c7bbad6352d00f2092bf0a.png)
Maybe ahowl can talk to Zarax about using their animations...
The phalangite animations are another problem. Here's how they look while under missile fire:
Spoiler
(http://gyazo.com/d495fb501cf8f2cb9c6bc19556b9a5d6.png)
Pretty awkward... I don't know if this bug is caused by the animations or another parameter, but I never seen this in EB (maybe I wasn't paying attention).
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Formations- I don't know if this is linked with the animations problem, but, at least the hoplites and the phalangites, bug out during combat. Proof:
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(http://gyazo.com/b483dec46bb4ea2c1f368ef11557c095.png)
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(http://gyazo.com/479a8d78f063799cb19bc787c523b0e7.png)
Spoiler
Here, the phalangites just decided not to strike the Cretan archers, and they both just stood in that position till the end of the battle.
(http://gyazo.com/1fe3476eb309d9ff688894951e89a82c.png)
We gotta fix this.
EDIT: found another problem in the cavalry units that use Prometheus horse cavalry animation and have a big shield, namely, the shield passes through the soldier arm:
Spoiler
(http://gyazo.com/0563da73a76bcf1f6b57daff365640b3.png)
We should change their animation.
Good observations. Does anyone have knowledge on how to possibly fix these? I've never messed with animations.
I believe DHS is our main man for animations... But can't you change the cavalry animations from one to another?
Yes.
I have an idea. Before we used z3n's Animations pack, but there was a bug where all spearmen would always kneel instead of stand. However I don't remember any issues with the phalangites so maybe they would be fixed.
However the day of release, z3n messaged me with his fix for the bug. We can see if it works and then the only issue left would be the hoplites, which we don't need permission for anything we just take the 'short_pike' attribute out of the edu, and give them shield_wall instead. Or we can try giving them a sword as a secondary weapon and see how that works out for them?
Give me a list of the cavalry units that need to be changed and I'll change their animations back to vanilla.
Ok, will do.
In regards to the sprites, did you delete the old ones?
What I did was pack the new sprites and replaced the old ones with them. I'm not sure why the old ones are showing
The cavalry units that need a change of animations are the following:
- Roman Cavalry;
- Legionary Cavalry;
- Praetorian Cavalry;
- Long Shield Cavalry;
- Numidian Camel Riders;
- Desert Cavalry;
- Arab Cavalry;
- Bedouin Warriors;
- Gothic Cavalry.
Don't we have any unused cavalry animations that are not vanilla?
Okay so basically just these since I deleted the others today:
Roman Cavalry
Long Shield Cavalry
Arab Cavalry
We might but I'm not sure. I'm probably going to re-add z3n's animations pack
Quote from: ahowl11 on March 05, 2014, 04:36:56 PMWe can see if it works and then the only issue left would be the hoplites, which we don't need permission for anything we just take the 'short_pike' attribute out of the edu, and give them shield_wall instead. Or we can try giving them a sword as a secondary weapon and see how that works out for them?
The BI "Shield Wall" is rather crazy for some reason. Well, it makes the units insanely strong in melee fighting. (You can't break the formation either, somehow). Though without something special like that you just get a mess of soldiers in a fight which is rather lame.
The sword idea is ok, though occasionally you get dumb things like your phalanx all in formation with swords out for no reason, etc. They also always charge with swords instead of spears I think.
Why do the hoplites use their spears in that stance?
What do you mean? Overhand stance?
Weren't hoplites able to present more than just one row of spears to the enemy? The pikes have 5, I thought at least two or three ranks of hoplites could engage...
That's obviously not possible with overhand, what's going on there?
Yes, supposedly, they were.
Why wouldn't it be possible with overhand?
They don't with the current way hoplites work, right? They're basically like standard spearmen. You can't get them in formation and have the guys behind thrusting enemies their friend in front is fighting.
Quote from: Alavaria on March 08, 2014, 11:48:53 PM
They don't with the current way hoplites work, right? They're basically like standard spearmen. You can't get them in formation and have the guys behind thrusting enemies their friend in front is fighting.
Yeah, that's the problem with the formations in RTW, the unit can hold it, but only the first line actually fights, with the exception being the phalanx. So, I don't think it's possible to have the second line of hoplites thrusting wilhe the first fights.
Well, I don't think it would be possible to fight with a spear overhand. You wouldn't be able to strike with as much precision or force. Also, I imagine it would be rather fatiguing.
We're currently having a discussion about that here:
http://www.exilian.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2983.0
The problem is that, as far as I know, there's no decent underhand hoplite animations for RTW. Almost all mods use the overhand stance. Jarlaxe seems to have created some nice ones, but they're not out yet.
Spoiler
(http://i61.tinypic.com/x459p2.jpg)
Yes. I have been wanting to see that animation in action for awhile now
I found it amusing that apparently the reason "almost all mods" use it is because one mod used it.
Yeah, I guess most modders don't dare to defy EB's historical authority in that respect.
I'm pretty sure RTR VII also uses overhand...
Yes it does, but that doesn't make it right or wrong. :P
But it makes Alavaria's statement ''only one mod'' wrong ;D Overhand was surely used anyway...
(http://img.welt.de/img/history/crop105230000/3820715428-ci3x2l-w580-aoriginal-h386-l0/bs-04-05-DW-Kultur-Berlin.jpg)
I think he was saying that the reason that most mods use it it's the fact that EB started the trend.
I agree with you, some form of overhand was probably used.
Yeah okay, probably. The problem is that those vases depicting phalanxes are all from the classical or archaic age, like the Chigi vase I inserted above. Most authors don't seem to be interested in this question too much haha
Well, I think I've seen images of vases showing other ways of holding the spears as well, it isn't all using the same method.
Mostly likely, all the hoplites in a phalanx (or from a given city, say) used the same type, but reality is messy and it wouldn't be surprising if different cities might have had different forms of spear use that are roughly similar and all worked well enough.
Of course we'd probably just want to pick one animation and use it for all hoplites :D
Meh, lets just stick to overhand since that's what people are familiar with, keep in mind also in the heat of battle, it didn't really matter how you held your spear, as long as the sharp end is facing the person you want to kill. That and plus there was a really heated argument on the EB II forum on TWC about this subject and it turned really ugly :(