This weekend I've been working on the regions map. I've transferred the ones of the old map using some 100 corresponding points (islands, promontories, river mouths, confluences). That went well enough I think. However, for settlement locations, I much prefer to rely on coordinates. I've found coordinates for most of them, but some I have not been able to trace. In a couple of other cases, the names were ambiguous. It would help me a lot of someone with more historical knowledge than I have could provide the coordinates of the following places. If available, coordinates of the nearest modern town are often sufficient.
Dahaea Igdi
Chorasmia Dzanbas
Massagetia Chiric
Saka-Issedonia Chigu
Taklamakan Kasia
Epirus Taulantia
Albania Gatara
Chattia Amisia
Siracena Uspe
Sarmatia Roxanace
Scandiae Thule (I don't think anyone ever thought this was a settlement?)
Venedia Amadoca
Cimbria Treva
Aestia Drusa
Olbiana Olbia (there's several Olbias in the ancient world, which one is this?)
Aegyptus-Ptolemais Ptolemais (there's no less than 3 settlements with that name in Egypt)
Hadramaut Ubar (this one seems to be rather speculative, but it could be near Shisr in Oman?)
Caledonia Devana
For the following I have coordinates but these places are speculative, being approximate, contested and/or having multiple contenders)
Teutonia Laciburgium
Suebia Luppia
Rugia Rugium
Lugia Calisia
Budinia Gelonus
Hyrcania Zadracarta
Cotinia Asanca
Odrysia Orestia
Borysthenes Gerrhos
I also note most names have been latinized. I don't know if that was a conscious decision, but IMHO, given the timeframe it seems to make more sense to use the greek names from which they were derived.
That is not all. Quite a few settlements simply are not in the position the old map showed them to be and in some cases are in fact outside of the region they're supposedly in. I don't really want to mess with the historical decisions about borders, but in most cases coordinates do not lie. Border corrections will be needed.
Epirus and Taulantia are both regions.
Would it help if I gave you some screenshots of some of your areas in question? I've messaged Suppanut on skype, and will paste his response here.
I will help with:
Dahaea Igdi
Chorasmia Dzanbas (it will be Toprak name)
Massagetia Chiric
Saka-Issedonia Chigu
Taklamakan Kasia (it can be Taklamakan Serica or Kasia)
Sarmatia Roxanace (?) This is a conditional place and name? I can give the name & coordinates of some big sarmatian burial ground in this region. (?)
Also, Muizer can you replace Axum with Napata in Nubia?
@xeofox:
Thanks! I couldn't find anything about those places, but that's probably also because not much is written about them in English. So I hit a dead end there.
@ahowl
Regarding Axum->Napata. No problem. Will do.
As for picking settlements beyond the world known to the Greeks and Romans, The best is evidently when archaeology and classical resources match up, but when they do not, I would prefer if we went with the people we are looking for in that area and then pick a prominent archaeological site related to them, rather than take a name from those ancient sources and plonk it down somewhere without any indication there was ever an important city there.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/Xeo_the_Fox/2016-10-24_02-28-50_zpsirgxwmra.png)
You can dowload points in KMZ (https://yadi.sk/d/ea2_NQg6xTcBY) or gpx (https://yadi.sk/d/_5QfVIc_xTcGN) formats.
Attention!
Chigu underwater (-+5km)
Ighdi (-+15km) in wiki not true coordinates. I try to find, but i find this place (region only) on military maps. Plase name: Upper Ighdy
Kasia under modern city
Blue marks: Bigest sarmatians burials grounds to north from Caspian sea. But modern toponyms. (name came from middle ages - posible)
Kyryk-oba or
Kirik-oba (translate some thing like 40 hills KAZ)
Tomar-utkul (Turkic, Altay dialect (?) ). cross the River on a log
. Somthing like sail on the wooden beam. Or сross the River on a tree trunk ;D
Chernyi yar (Black Yar) - RUS translate close to Black ravine
Piatimary old russian dialect
- can be something like hilly place. But I do not believe in this translation
And About sanctuary
Baite (http://exilian.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4692.msg110611#msg110611) again . It have tracks dif. cultures but it was early sarmatians place also.
Spoiler
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/Xeo_the_Fox/2016-10-24_03-25-26_zpsimjna42x.png)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/Xeo_the_Fox/2016-10-24_03-22-48_zpszufzxzz5.png)
About
Uspe i think no good interpritation now. Source: Tacitus
map of Kuban monuments :
Spoiler
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/Xeo_the_Fox/cuban_zpsjlspond8.png)
Grushevskoe gorodishe (Грушевское городище) in east of map it`s ancient city VII–III bc.
Chattia Amisia (from Ptolemy map, Fritzlar in Germany, site of Donar's Oak)
Siracena Uspe (location is uncertain but EB and XC using site of Elista in Kalmykia in Russia due to there are Kurgan cluster in that area and description quite fit for other side of the river)
Sarmatia Roxanace (Roxanace has no exact location, its name is coming from north-eastern indo-iranian language (which was using by indo-european steppe nomad in general) mean bright/illustrous city, it was mentioned to be capital of Saka by Ctesias of Cnidus, I put it in XC on site of Aktobe in Kazakhstan as dummy for Scythian-Sarmatian kurgan cluster in that area which seem fit with myth of Nart's great hall in later Alannic mythology)
Scandiae Thule (area around Trondheim in Norway is one of the most ancient likely candidate)
Venedia Amadoca (in area around modern day Kiev or a bit north in Chernobyl)
Cimbria Treva (https://translate.google.co.th/translate?hl=th&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTreva) (modern Hamburg in Germany, alternative would be Bad Oldesloe)
Aestia Drusa (modern Elblag in Poland)
Olbiana Olbia (Olbia on Dnieper is here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olbia_(archaeological_site) )
Aegyptus-Ptolemais Ptolemais (based on ahowl's description, it is here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemais_Hermiou)
Hadramaut Ubar (yes, Shisr in Oman)
Caledonia Devana (modern day Aberdeen in Scotland)
For the following I have coordinates but these places are speculative, being approximate, contested and/or having multiple contenders)
Teutonia Laciburgium (Ueckermunde or Stralsund in Germany, up to how they plotting spatial location from Ptolemy's map) (https://translate.google.co.th/translate?hl=th&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLaciburgium&sandbox=1 )
Suebia Luppia (Burnburg on Saale in Germany)
Rugia Rugium (both Darlowo and Miastko in Poland fit description from Ptolemy, you could use Miastko as settlement and Darlowo as port if you want, https://translate.google.co.th/translate?hl=th&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FRugium )
Lugia Calisia (Kalisz in Poland)
Budinia Gelonus (Bilsk settlement in Poltava region in Ukraine, one of the biggest fortified settlement found in Pontic Steppe)
Hyrcania Zadracarta (modern Gorgan in Iran)
Cotinia Asanca (Havranok settlement in Slovakia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havr%C3%A1nok)
Odrysia Orestia (modern day Edirne in Turkey)
Borysthenes Gerrhos (Herodotus, Ptolemy called it Metropolis Scythica, opposite bank of Nikopol on Dnieper in Ukraine, sites of a lot of scythian kurgans)
Hope this helps Muizer!
Thanks for the quick response guys. I think that will do nicely.
Roxanace - saka capital (or just big city with saka palace). Zarina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarinaea) (sak: zarnya) saka queen was there VII-V (?) bc.
The place (different localization and interpretation) somewhere close to Media or close to Syrdaria river (the more popular version).
"At that time the Sacae were ruled by a woman named Zarina, who was devoted to warfare and was in daring and efficiency by far the foremost of the women of the Sacae. Now this people, in general, have courageous women who share with their husbands the dangers of war, but she, it is said, was the most conspicuous of them all for her beauty and remarkable as well in respect to both her designs and whatever she undertook.
For she subdued such of the neighbouring barbarian peoples as had become proud because of their boldness and were trying to enslave
the people of the Sacae, and into much of her own realm she introduced civilized life, founded not a few cities, and, in a word, made the life of her people happier. "
Diodorus Siculus
"Zarinaea,the queen of the Sacae. It describes his progress to Rhoxanace, the royal city of the Sacae, and his reception by Zarinaea. By the end of the extract it is clear that the course of his love is not running smoothly, and he therefore determines to kill himself, writing a letter to the queen to explain his action."
Nicolaus of Damascus
About steppe tribes to north from Caspian sea...
The map of burials grounds in western Kazakhstan. Thanks for Arman Bisembaev (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000636040189&fref=ts)
Spoiler
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/Xeo_the_Fox/_SAM6272_zpsuvscr3be.png)
Thanks for Kurgans' map, xeofox. :)
Quote from: ahowl11 on October 23, 2016, 06:38:26 PM
Also, Muizer can you replace Axum with Napata in Nubia?
On closer look, that's a bit problematic. Napata is on the other side of Meroe from Axum. So can't do that and keep the regions as they are. Would have to insert a new one north of Meroe for that, and delete the one around Axum.
No that's fine, whatever you need to do, you can make that change.