Exilian

Game Design and Project Resources: The Workshops Quarter => Rome - Total Realism => Mods, Maps & Game Add-Ons - The Bazaar => RTR 0.5 Imperial Campaign => Topic started by: ahowl11 on March 12, 2014, 12:51:29 AM

Title: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 12, 2014, 12:51:29 AM
I know Mausolos has his thread on Mercenaries but I thought we could start getting more specific. Here are all the mercenary pools with the units available to them. Let's make changes and adjustments as well as adding the new mercenaries to relevant pools.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on March 12, 2014, 03:25:37 PM
That will be a lot of work... right now I can only see the list when quoting, maybe you could post it without a spoiler?
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 12, 2014, 03:54:30 PM
Done
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on March 12, 2014, 04:06:41 PM
Cheers. So that list is like things stand right now? So how do these numbers for the replenish rate etc. make sense?

exp 0 cost 1000 replenish 0.01 - 0.02 max 1 initial 0
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 12, 2014, 04:16:23 PM
Yes that is what it is currently.

I think the bigger the number the faster that they will replenish and have available.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on March 12, 2014, 04:41:23 PM
Okay then. So we need to attach all mercenaries to all regions? Don't we plan to get another map with some other regions, so this would change, too?
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 12, 2014, 04:44:29 PM
Yes.
There is no guarantee that this new map will be made. Even if it is, it would not be ready for a very long time. We have to make do with this map, which is not that bad in itself.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on March 12, 2014, 04:52:28 PM
Okay, yeah then we should do that, perhaps combine it with AoR units? Many of them will be available as mercenaries, too, anyway.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 12, 2014, 04:57:02 PM
Only put the AOR units that could be recruited as Mercenaries.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Bercor on March 12, 2014, 09:17:03 PM
I think we should discuss, map-wide, which mercenaries implement.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on March 26, 2014, 11:34:30 PM
It's time then to discuss this as well ;) Do we also have to discuss all the ''exp 0 cost 1000 replenish 0.01 - 0.02 max 1 initial 0''? Or just list the units first? Maybe unit + cost+ possible replenishment rate (although I'm not sure how this one works and where to make the differences).
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 28, 2014, 06:00:36 AM
Yeah first we need to look at our current map and make an AOR for it as well as look at the mercenary pools. Until we have a brand new map ready to go, I am focusing on the current one. It's a great map in itself guys, maybe making a new one would be a waste of time and effort? By using our current map it puts us so much further ahead so that we could make our Punic Wars Campaign sooner :P
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Bercor on March 28, 2014, 10:29:23 AM
Well it's a good map, not a great one, in my opinion. Some visual glitches (squared islands and look at the Nile Delta and you'll see problems there too), but what makes it difficult for me to accept it, is the fact that we would always be dependent of Philadelphos agreement to make changes. I don't think that speedy releases are the most important aspect.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 28, 2014, 04:05:56 PM
That is stuff that can be fixed with not a lot of effort. We do not need his agreement on anything, we could make as many changes as we want. However, he constructed everything to work and I am just afraid to mess with too much. The physical glitches can be fixed, as for cities we have already discussed what we would do in taking those cities out of germania and also switching up Gaul.

However, if Hereje or anyone else can make the map for us, I'll take it. Until then we have to continue with the one we have. We can't stop our progress and wait for the new map, and we cannot make progress with the idea that we will have the map. We don't know if we'll have the map and we should not make plans for it until we have it. I'm just trying to save time and frustration because I have made this mistake before and it threw everything out of sorts with the mod.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Bercor on March 28, 2014, 04:22:31 PM
Of course, I agree that we should not stop the development. I was merely opposing your idea that making a new map is a waste of time and resources, even more that is only Hereje who is actually doing.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on March 28, 2014, 06:24:10 PM
Well I hope he is still working on it :)
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on March 31, 2014, 11:26:08 PM
I think I agree with Bercor there. For now, we'll need to do it for the current map anyway, so can you figure out the AoR stuff you mentioned? Does someone work on this?
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on April 04, 2014, 09:56:02 PM
I think I agree with Bercor there. For now, we'll need to do it for the current map anyway, so can you figure out the AoR stuff you mentioned? Does someone work on this?

 :P
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Bercor on April 04, 2014, 10:58:43 PM
As far as I know, nobody is currently working on it. Work has met an halt, since ahowl is a bit busy in RL.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: ahowl11 on April 04, 2014, 11:21:23 PM
I can make a quick AOR set up today. I need others to pitch in though. Having everyone discuss and give their ideas is nice, but it would be better if there were others working on other parts of the mod. Hopefully Sloth comes back soon.
I know with most of you, you do not have the knowledge, time, or experience do do such tasks. I'm just lamenting at the fact that there is a scarce number of actual modders for RTW these days. The ones who do mod, do their own projects like myself, dvk901, and Philadelphos.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on April 24, 2014, 01:13:26 PM
Starting with mercenaries for each region:

SICILIAN MERCENARIES:


Peltophoroi(Sicelia/Eastern Sicely)- Sicel peltasts, perhaps ligher (but obviously with a pelte shield) than Greek peltasts but more skilled in rough terrain

Elymi Ekdromoi (Elymia/Western Sicily) - spearmen/Light  drawn from the native Elymians (see RTR VII fpr equipment or the whole model)

Sicel Spearmen (Sicelia/Eastern Sicely) - see RTR VII for model/equipment(similar to Ekdromoi)

(Greek) Mercenary Hoplites (Mistrophoroi Hoplitai)- self-explaining

(Greek) Mercenary Peltasts (Mistrophoroi Peltastai)- same

Greek Mercenary Archers (Mistrophoroi Toxotai)- same

Greek Mercenary Cavalry- same

Perhaps make Roman deserters available from 218 BC on? That's possible on MTW2, but I don't know about RTW.


SARDINIAN MERCENARIES:

Nuragic (goatfell) archers- see RTR VII, very skilled archers

Corsi Javelinmen- skilled javelinmen who lived in the extreme north-east of Sardinia


CORSICAN MERCENARIES:

Corsi Javelinmen- see above, they lived mostly in Northern Corsica and might be related to Ligurians. So if we don't have enough unit spots, we could also put Ligurian Warriors here
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: svramj on April 24, 2014, 08:08:18 PM
INDIAN MERCENARY

Vasnika Kauntika (Mercenary Indian Spearmen) men from wild tribes with moderate training, expected to ward off chariots and cavalry and not engage heavy infantry or elephants.

Vasnika Dhanuska (Mercenary Indian Longbowmen) men from wild tribes with good formal training in archery, can engage in close combat with 2 handed broadswords but not expected to.

Srenibhata (Indian Guild Mercenary) men from private war guilds and corporations. equipped with axe,swords and wooden shields, breast plates, proficient in throwing javelins/darts. highly trained troops but like any mercenary are loyal to their guild masters, chiefs and corporations they trained at.

Vasnya Kamboja Asvanika (Mercenary Gandaran Cavalry) medium heavy cavalry armed with javelins and equipped with swords and hoplon like shields for close combat. best for flanking but not suited for direct charging.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on April 29, 2014, 10:18:41 PM
Thanks svramj ;)


And the mercenaries for the other islands:

Balearic AoR:

Balearic Slingers


Cretan AoR:

Cretan Archers



Rhodian AoR:

Rhodian Slingers



Naxos AoR:

Greek Mercenary Hoplites



Lesbos AoR:

Greek Mercenary Hoplites

Greek Mercenary Peltasts



Korkyra AoR:

Greek Mercenary Peltasts



Cypriote AoR:

Greek Mercenary Hoplites
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Alavaria on April 30, 2014, 01:30:42 AM
If there are merc units that historically were used in many areas, let me know (I think cretans for example appeared in a lot of places, not just around Crete).

I'm thinking of making a merc port (like expected for carthage) but a branching version such that other factions get perhaps more expensive merc port, with possibly a smaller selection than carthage does...
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on April 30, 2014, 04:25:54 PM
If there are merc units that historically were used in many areas, let me know (I think cretans for example appeared in a lot of places, not just around Crete).

I'm thinking of making a merc port (like expected for carthage) but a branching version such that other factions get perhaps more expensive merc port, with possibly a smaller selection than carthage does...

Aye, you mean like this? ;)

http://www.exilian.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2956.0

I've discussed this with ahowl and Bercor before. Some questions remain and maybe you can shed some light on this or contribute your own opinion: Most of these mercenary centers and ports will be there at the start, so they could be unique buildings and from what I've seen in other mods that's not such a big problem. However, Sparta and the Achaian League should only get one later. So we would either need to give them a unique building option that can only be constructed once, or give them the building at the start and activate the recruiting options only through a script.

At that point, we should also consider a general mercenary center, buildable for all factions (or at least those on the list, a port respectively a center then), which would only allow access to a restricted numbers of units (the most popular mercenaries, say for instance Rhodian slingers, Cretan Archers and Thracian Swordsmen), but could be constructed everywhere.

I realise that we still haven't discussed this in full, but if implemented in the right way this will be a new and very attractive feature of our mod, so all opinions on this are welcome :)
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Alavaria on April 30, 2014, 05:51:44 PM
Aye, you mean like this? ;)

http://www.exilian.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2956.0
Cute, but no.
At that point, we should also consider a general mercenary center, buildable for all factions (or at least those on the list, a port respectively a center then), which would only allow access to a restricted numbers of units (the most popular mercenaries, say for instance Rhodian slingers, Cretan Archers and Thracian Swordsmen), but could be constructed everywhere.
Rather more wordy, but yes.

It's possible to do it all, actually. Merc Centers (recruits local area mercs), merc port (recruits "popular" mercs from all over - requires port) and even have mercs that can only be recruited in specific areas. (No need for two different merc centers, you can use a single "merc center" that just has the special options only in the specific cities.

Carthage would probably have somewhat expanded options for merc centers and merc ports, can use the same building as other factions though.


Depending on the balancing of Allied (AOR) vs Citizen (Factional) units, it might be handy to have fast access to mercs, granted the building would be quick to build, but cost a lot of cash...
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on April 30, 2014, 07:47:44 PM
Yeah mercenaries were and thus should be really important. I can't see you disagreeing anywhere? :D It would be nice if we could make the units recruitable at the towns and for the factions I named ;)
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Alavaria on April 30, 2014, 07:49:36 PM
Yeah mercenaries were and thus should be really important. I can't see you disagreeing anywhere? :D It would be nice if we could make the units recruitable at the towns and for the factions I named ;)
Just having some fun.

Indeed, I can actually pinpoint any single settlement, so recruitment can be tightly restricted (Campanian Cavalry) or wide (Tarantine Cavalry, Cretans :)) as needed.
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Mausolos of Caria on April 30, 2014, 07:56:26 PM
Very good then  :)
Title: Re: Discussion: New Mercenary Units
Post by: Ballacraine on May 05, 2014, 10:19:03 AM
This is sounding very interesting.

Balla.  8)