Exilian
Game Design and Project Resources: The Workshops Quarter => Rome - Total Realism => Mods, Maps & Game Add-Ons - The Bazaar => RTR 0.5 Imperial Campaign => Topic started by: Mausolos of Caria on March 26, 2014, 10:44:33 PM
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Here is our thread for all faction's reforms. I will start with this opening post to summarize what we should put down for every faction and then we can speak about all factions, one after the other since it would be too much stuff for a single post, apart from the fact that I can't say this for all factions. So what do we need?
1. Timeframe- when did the Reforms happen?
2. Which new units should the faction get with the reforms?
3. Possible other changes? (Armour, costs, recruitment methods, whatever)
For 1. we should discuss how this is going to be represented in the game. I think ahowl already commented on this for the Romans, but I can't find it right now so please post on this here. It would probably be difficult to script implementation of reforms at certain turns in the campaign, referring to the historical dates.
So let's go.
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As far as I know, the only way to implement reforms is through a script (except the Marian reforms, there's an vanilla event for that), so it won't be that difficult to set a date of reform, provided that we have the script.
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I'll just start with our Syrian friends:
THE SELEUCID EMPIRE
Time of reform: About 200 BC
Reform units:
Lonchophoroi- Mounted javelinmen with an effective melee spear
Neocretans
Thorakitai
Perhaps Cataphracts? Perhaps xeofox knows more about their introduction.
@ Bercor Yeah true, I hope we can get those scripts then. Is it also possible to have two reform events? Neocretans and Thorakitai already came into use by 220 BC, but the Lonchophoroi don't appear before 200 BC. But I would understand if that would be either impossible or too complicated, in that case we might just put them together in one reform since the difference was ''only'' about two decades.
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Well, EB's team had, at least, 3 reforms for the Romans, so I guess it is very possible, and not very difficult to someone that knows their scripting.
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Very well then.
THE PTOLEMAIC EMPIRE
Time of reform: About 220 BC
New Units:
Neocretan archers
Libyan Phalanx (AoR West of Alexandria)
Machimoi Phalangites (AoR Egypt)
Machimoi Cavalry (AoR Egypt)
Epilektoi (Elite Machimoi Infantry) (AoR Egypt)
This post looks little, but it was actually a lot of digging, believe me! ;)
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What do you reckon should be the visual and stat differences between Neocretan Archer and Cretan Archers?
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Very good question. I think Cretan archers should still be slightly better, since skirmishing was the way of life for many Cretans, while the Neocretans were just normal soldiers trained in their style. Trained very well, for sure, but it can't make up the experience of a whole (albeit young) life.
As for the visual differences, that might be more difficult. After all, our sources even state that they used the same distinctive Cretan hats. I did some research on the internet including PDFs and google books, but the best thing I found was a review criticising an author for not drawing a line between Cretan and Neocretan archers, but he also fails to explain the difference himself ;D
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Ultimately, they can have a small texture and stats difference.
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change of armor perhaps? Give Neocretans maille and a helmet?
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Mmh yeah maille would be possible. It seems almost impossible to find out their exact equipment, but I read that they also used the Cretan hats, so we should keep them.
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Good discussion all!
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Also Cretan hats are very snazzy indeed :D
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I think style is a huge factor in the design of a mod such as this
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Europa Barbarorum had a very good Reform system. For example, when playing as the Seleucids and you lost against a Cataphract-using army, Cataphract reforms would activate. Would it be possible to have something similar?
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Everything is possible with the right scripts (ok, not everything, but that is).
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That sounds promising indeed :)
On to the mountainboys- ANTIGONID MACEDON
Time of reform: Roughly 220 BC
New units:
Trallian Infantry? I had them down as mercenaries, or can we make reform mercenaries?
Kestros Slingers
Ahem... I can't think of any other units right now? They didn't have Lonchophoroi, neither new phalanxes or cataphracts.
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That's okay, the less the better. We only have so much room :)
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Hehe okay ;)
THE KINGDOM OF PONTOS
Date of reforms: Around 100 BC
New units:
Pontic Pezoi
Slave Phalangites
Chalkaspides
Imitation Legionaries
Armenian Heavy Cavalry
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I will add reform units in after all regular units. Just an FYI. I am currently adding in Carthaginian Faction units.
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That's good, I'll just continue writing it all down here so you have the overview ;) Should I split the reforms for the Greeks into different ones, or is that not possible with a superfaction anyway?
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Go ahead, we will see what we can do
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Check out the Punic Reform Section..
What do you think?
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?409582-RTR-VII-Preview-VI-The-Reforms
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Seems Reasonable.
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Aye it sounds good enough I guess, I'm not sure about the Libyan Lonchophoroi but it woild probably suffice for the infantry reforms.
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Well currently that unit is not in.
Btw, I implemented the Carthaginians the other day, just didn't say anything :p
I still need to add their Libyan Subjects.
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Aye tat's good then, and well done.
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SPARTA:
Date of reforms: Roughly 230 BC
New units:
Euzonoi
Spartan Pezoi
Access to new mercenaries, too
Perhaps, like RTR VII, we could also make older units (Periokoi hoplites) unavailable, since the younger generation would be recruited as Phalangites from Kleomenes onwards. Roman and Carthaginian ''Line infantry'' should be similar, while the Diadochs would keep other archers among the Neocretans, for example.
ACHAIAN LEAGUE
Time of reform: 240- 220 BC
Achaian Pezoi
Thorakitai
Neocretan Ephebes (after 180 BC)
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SYRACUSE
Date of reform: About 240 BC
New Units: Thorakitai, Roman deserters, possibly Syracusan Pezoi
BOIOTIAN LEAGUE
Date of reform: 250 BC
New Units: Boiotian Pezoi
BOSPORAN KINGDOM
Date of reform: About 200 BC
New Units: Sarmatian Cavalry, possibly Bosporan Pezoi
MASSALIA
Date of reform: About 200 BC
New Units: Thorakitai
AITOLIAN LEAGUE
Date of reform: 209- 205 BC (Philopoemen's reforms)
New Units: Aitolian Pezoi, Improved Hippeis (not sure if we would make a new unit, but the Hippeis/Heavy cavalry were in a bad state before he took over and retrained them. Can we alter the stats of the Hippeis with the reforms? Thus, they would be weaker than average Hippeis (Athenian or Achaian e.g.) before and stronger than the average after them. These are NOT the units called ''Aitolian cavalry'' since they are described as lighter warriors and are a Greek version of Hippakontistai, therefore improved Prodromoi.
Rhodes, Athens & Crete don't really need reforms I think. That's the Greeks done.