Exilian
Game Design and Project Resources: The Workshops Quarter => Mods, Maps & Game Add-Ons - The Bazaar => Rome - Total Realism => Topic started by: ahowl11 on July 05, 2016, 08:27:02 PM
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Here is the thread on Ancient Kush.
Military
- Kushitic Slingers (Low end unit with slings)
- Kushitic Infantry (Solid light infantry with large hide shields, spears and short swords, eventually also helmets)
- Kushitic Archers (Unit equipped with recurved bows, armdaggers and eventually round shields)
- Kushitic Longbowmen (Elite unit equipped longbows and short swords)
- Kushitic Horsemen (Lightly armed cavalry with spears, small round shields and swords)
- Kushitic Guard Cavalry (Elite cavalry with spears, shields, swords and helmets)
- "Tribal" (?) (Stone age unit equipped either with bows, maces or spears. Still have to decide that)
Here a collection of Meroitic swords (Open in new tab because very high resolution):
http://i.imgur.com/T6AESHx.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/T6AESHx.jpg)
Meroitic quivers, made of rawhide:
(http://i.imgur.com/eE6whdH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qg5nAk0.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/gQ9UN45.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/gQ9UN45.jpg)
Fragmentary archers braces:
(http://i.imgur.com/y1uZU3w.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/n4qjBHh.jpg)
Reconstruction of such an archers brace:
(http://i.imgur.com/fYDrev8.jpg)
Leather shield:
(https://pp.vk.me/c636719/v636719409/1a937/d8So0aY-Dao.jpg)
Meroites would also use helmets. In particular we know about the so-called "Glockenhelm", which was a variation of the Boeotian helmet and probably appeared first during the late 3rd century BC:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q4199xd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FIAzNl0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2LM6l8v.jpg)
Pliny reports how the "Aethiopians" would decorate their helmets with ostrich feathers. I would suggest to make two versions: One with and one without feather. The one with feather can be used for the Kushitic Guard Cavalry, while the undecorated one can be used for the Kushitc Infantry.
Very likely fantasy. Ptolemais Theorn for example would have consisted of Greeks and Egyptians. The local Africans were mostly nomads and its highly unlikely that they were Hellenized in such a degree that they would start to fight as hoplites. I would suggest ordinary Greek units instead.
I have made a graphic with all types of shields occuring in Meroe:
(http://i.imgur.com/sRiE9mY.png) (http://i.imgur.com/sRiE9mY.png)
The dominant material for shields was tanned hide.
Made a new sketch
(http://i.imgur.com/tJ8erTy.jpg)
Orientate on this for the Kushitic Infantry. Of course there can also be variations, like giving him a helmet or atleast a headband made of bronze. Or a long-sleeved tunic.
Geography
Here a map of Nubian sites:
(http://i.imgur.com/wsibwxI.jpg)
I marked Meroe aswell as the cities which should be represented as forts. The line in the top of the pic depicts the northern border in 272 BC.
This map also gives a good idea about the diverse arms of the Nile. Concerning the climate: Everything below the Atbara, so the river which sandwiches Meroe between the Nile, is arid savannah. Would look roughly like this, just with more trees:
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/gwynleym10/Sudan/Sudan0319.jpg)
The further south you go the more humid the savannah becomes, especially south of Khartoum.
My honest suggestion would be to delete Aksum and replace it with Napata (Nuri in the map). Aksum is first tangible only in the first century AD, while in the Hellenistic period there was probably only a settlement on the Bety Giyorgis, one of the mountains flanking later Aksum. Meanwhile, Napata was the religious capital of the Kushitic kingdom.
If you do so I would make what is modern Ethiopia "Eremos", if you have such a thing. If not I would still replace Aksum with Yeha, which was very likely the capital of the kingdom of D'mt (First half of the first millenium BC). In the third century it was in a sharp decline, but alteast we know that it existed at all at this point.
Minor settlements (Check the map in post #2): Assuan, Pselchis (Modern Dakka) and Faras.
Meroe was responsible for exporting ivory from the Butana and further South. In Ptolemais Theron there might have been some ivory trade aswell, but in that area they needed the elephants to stay alive. Only source for ivory would have been rhino horns.
Culture
Resources
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Hello, I am Gabrielkouda aka Swagganaut aka LinusLinothorax and I will take care of Kush in this mod.
Here the roster:
- Kushitic Slingers (Low end unit with slings)
- Kushitic Infantry (Solid light infantry with large hide shields, spears and short swords, eventually also helmets)
- Kushitic Archers (Unit equipped with recurved bows, armdaggers and eventually round shields)
- Kushitic Longbowmen (Elite unit equipped longbows and short swords)
- Kushitic Horsemen (Lightly armed cavalry with spears, small round shields and swords)
- Kushitic Guard Cavalry (Elite cavalry with spears, shields, swords and helmets)
- "Tribal" (?) (Stone age unit equipped either with bows, maces or spears. Still have to decide that)
Here a map of Nubian sites:
(http://i.imgur.com/wsibwxI.jpg)
I marked Meroe aswell as the cities which should be represented as forts. The line in the top of the pic depicts the northern border in 272 BC.
This map also gives a good idea about the diverse arms of the Nile. Concerning the climate: Everything below the Atbara, so the river which sandwiches Meroe between the Nile, is arid savannah. Would look roughly like this, just with more trees:
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h211/gwynleym10/Sudan/Sudan0319.jpg)
The further south you go the more humid the savannah becomes, especially south of Khartoum.
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Cool, good work. What does Kushitic mean? So far our main cities are Meroe and Axum. I see Meroe, but not Axum. Any ideas or suggestions for it?
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Pahaha, I can explain that one.
The word he actually wrote is k u s h i t i c
But the middle part of that, on account of it forming a swear word, is being hit with the forum's word filter which changes it to the word "armadillo". I'll see if I can get that fixed somehow.
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Haha wow and here I was thinking it was some cool cultural term!
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Fixed, anyway :)
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So far our main cities are Meroe and Axum. I see Meroe, but not Axum. Any ideas or suggestions for it?
My honest suggestion would be to delete Aksum and replace it with Napata (Nuri in the map). Aksum is first tangible only in the first century AD, while in the Hellenistic period there was probably only a settlement on the Bety Giyorgis, one of the mountains flanking later Aksum. Meanwhile, Napata was the religious capital of the Kushitic kingdom.
If you do so I would make what is modern Ethiopia "Eremos", if you have such a thing. If not I would still replace Aksum with Yeha, which was very likely the capital of the kingdom of D'mt (First half of the first millenium BC). In the third century it was in a sharp decline, but alteast we know that it existed at all at this point.
PS: Do you have Ptolemais Theron as a city?
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Yeha seems interesting, was that kingdom also Kushititc? We could do Napata but I'm interested in Yeha. Where is it on the map?
If you're talking about the port then no we don't, I'm definitely adding it as a fort though as forts will be minor settlements in our mod.
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Yeha seems interesting, was that kingdom also Kushititc?
No, it was Ethio-Semitic. It was probably founded either by Sabaen migrants or by Sabaenized Ethiopians.
We could do Napata but I'm interested in Yeha. Where is it on the map?
Very close to Aksum: https://www.google.de/maps/place/Yeha,+%C3%84thiopien/@12.7241215,36.8353817,6z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x166c7362c503d3ef:0x8148571bf0757f23!8m2!3d14.2861727!4d39.0163556 (https://www.google.de/maps/place/Yeha,+%C3%84thiopien/@12.7241215,36.8353817,6z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x166c7362c503d3ef:0x8148571bf0757f23!8m2!3d14.2861727!4d39.0163556)
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Wonderful, once you get a hold of the mod and can see the map, you can give us the coordinates of where it should be. Also would this sub faction have any unique units? And it'd be called D'mt?
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Also would this sub faction have any unique units? And it'd be called D'mt?
We know absolutly nothing about the political situation of Hellenistic Ethiopia, just that there probably wasn't any bigger kingdom. Pretty much the main reason why I suggested to shift the region to Napata instead and make Ethiopia itself Eremos, if there is such a thing in RTR.
Edit: PS: Do you have Ptolemais Theron as a city?
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We don't have it as a city, but plan to add it as a permanent fort. Alright if Napata is better, then we will have to do that.
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Alright if Napata is better, then we will have to do that.
And what will happen to Ethiopia? Will it be integrated into an other province or will it become "Eremos"?
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We can either add it on to the region that meroe is in or the desert Sahara region which is where Garama is.
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Better make it part of the Sahara then, because Kush owning Ethiopia would be pretty ahistorical.
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Here a collection of Meroitic swords (Open in new tab because very high resolution):
http://i.imgur.com/T6AESHx.jpg
(http://i.imgur.com/T6AESHx.jpg)
Meroitic quivers, made of rawhide:
(http://i.imgur.com/eE6whdH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qg5nAk0.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/gQ9UN45.jpg
(http://i.imgur.com/gQ9UN45.jpg)
Fragmentary archers braces:
(http://i.imgur.com/y1uZU3w.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/n4qjBHh.jpg)
Reconstruction of such an archers brace:
(http://i.imgur.com/fYDrev8.jpg)
Leather shield:
(https://pp.vk.me/c636719/v636719409/1a937/d8So0aY-Dao.jpg)
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Meroites would also use helmets. In particular we know about the so-called "Glockenhelm", which was a variation of the Boeotian helmet and probably appeared first during the late 3rd century BC:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q4199xd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FIAzNl0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2LM6l8v.jpg)
Pliny reports how the "Aethiopians" would decorate their helmets with ostrich feathers. I would suggest to make two versions: One with and one without feather. The one with feather can be used for the Kushitic Guard Cavalry, while the undecorated one can be used for the Kushitc Infantry.
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Thanks for all of the information, I updated the OP. What other major centers south of Thebes could we add as minor settlements? Also in the OP there are a few more bold headings. Could you help us out with those as well?
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To help keep the forum looking OK, I've shrunk a couple of the images and provided direct clickable links to the larger originals in the post above - JB
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Thanks for all of the information, I updated the OP. What other major centers south of Thebes could we add as minor settlements? Also in the OP there are a few more bold headings. Could you help us out with those as well?
Minor settlements (Check the map in post #2): Assuan, Pselchis (Modern Dakka) and Faras.
Concerning the climate I already wrote something in post #2. Its really mostly desert until the Atbara river, from there it gets more an more fertile the further South you move. Around Meroe it's semi-arid steppe with elephants, lions etc.
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Where would Ptolemaic Theron go? Was there a big ivory trade in the area? Also, do you know anything about the blemmyes tribes?
Also a few mods depict Ethiopian hoplites as if some peoples were hellenized. Any truth to that?
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Where would Ptolemaic Theron go?
Somewhere on the coast in the South of modern Sudan / North of modern Eritrea.
Was there a big ivory trade in the area?
Meroe was responsible for exporting ivory from the Butana and further South. In Ptolemais Theron there might have been some ivory trade aswell, but in that area they needed the elephants to stay alive. Only source for ivory would have been rhino horns.
Also, do you know anything about the blemmyes tribes?
Blemmyes were not really relevant during this timeframe. Why? Do you want a Blemmye unit?
Also a few mods depict Ethiopian hoplites as if some peoples were hellenized. Any truth to that?
Very likely fantasy. Ptolemais Theorn for example would have consisted of Greeks and Egyptians. The local Africans were mostly nomads and its highly unlikely that they were Hellenized in such a degree that they would start to fight as hoplites. I would suggest ordinary Greek units instead.
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Thank you for the answers, yes if the Blemmyes were at all relevant, a unit couldn't hurt but if they weren't best to save room for something more important.
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I have made a graphic with all types of shields occuring in Meroe:
(http://i.imgur.com/sRiE9mY.png) (http://i.imgur.com/sRiE9mY.png)
The dominant material for shields was tanned hide.
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Shrunk the image to fit the forum better, with a link to the original added. - JB
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That's great research! We're you able to get the mod installed?
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No sorry, I barely play Rome anymore.
Made a new sketch
(http://i.imgur.com/tJ8erTy.jpg)
Orientate on this for the Kushitic Infantry. Of course there can also be variations, like giving him a helmet or atleast a headband made of bronze. Or a long-sleeved tunic.
Edit: Can I resize images myself?
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You can if you're using the BBcode-based post editor (there's a toggle button on the posts, and you can also change it permanently in your user settings somewhere.
The images have a width attribute, the code goes like this:
[img width=900]URL goes here[/img]
The width is in pixels; 800-900 is usually fine.
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Thanks, done.
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Updated OP
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I think the only thing that we can really use from this thread at the moment is making Napata an actual city. It needs to replace Axum. and then extend Ethiopia to the south