Exilian
Game Design and Project Resources: The Workshops Quarter => Rome - Total Realism => Mods, Maps & Game Add-Ons - The Bazaar => Organisation and Coordination => Topic started by: Vrosivs Avgvstvs Rakvs on September 29, 2016, 04:50:12 PM
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This thread is reserved for the Mapping Department Members and is to be used for general organization of the department. All members of this department are asked to visit this thread periodically, so as to be up to date with their own involvement in the development.
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Right now, Muizer is working on this and giving updates when he can. Gigantus can help when needed, EmoDude can also help. Mausolos, myself, and some other researchers can be of assistance if needed.
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Status update.
I've added rivers to the feature map and settlements to the regions map.
Planned work:
This is where the infrastructure needs to be added. The way I see it, this is an integral part of the exercise. I'm not content to have settlements in historically accurate places. As much as possible, I also want roads to go in historically correct places. As you know, RTW does not have a road map as such, and routing is a matter of creating and constraining the most economical path between capitals of adjacent regions. So, it's going to be a challenge.
Btw, there is extensive info on transport in the Roman Empire. Though anachronistic at game start, those roads are at least plausible, so I will use them. Outside of the empire though, for me anyway, road placement is a highly speculative business in the sense that there may well be information available locally or in research papers, but it's not been integrated into map material I can use. Any information about things like major passes, fords, bridges and trade routes is appreciated.
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I do that in Extended Cultures 5. We could force direction of road indirectly. with some simple rules.
1) River and fords help a lot. most of natural roads in history was forcing by river crossing location after all.
2) Road path abhors swamp terrain ( this due to road path based on minimized movement cost, not the shortest distance). So a few swamp block (I mostly did it on ford to force engine to choosing another ford to cross) could shift path of the road.
3) Road could not move diagonally, this would help a lot in create pathblock to shape road pattern. Guide the way with impassible terrain (mountain and dense forest) but make sure it is not too much though, there could be many problem follow as you would never want to restrict movement of character too much.
4) Road path is the same path as pathfinding system of engine, it has limit range, too long distance (50 is already have problem in some paths) with confuse pathfinding would make road not able to appear on that path.
5) Bewared ctd causing by character side-step into water tile if you forcing road to be too close to the coast line without protection with feature from "map_features.tga". (river in water tile will prevent this side step but ship still able to move on it like normal)
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This is collection of map on road and trade routes. I hope this would help.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/yd51cest4190s35/Roads_and_Trade_Route.rar
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Excellent! Going to be a lot of work to stitch it all together, but I don't mind that.
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Great job guys! Very glad to see this much progress!
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Maybe we could reassign the ground types and change swamp in something that can be used on more area's.
My suggestion is:
Swamp: Wilderness (this would be used for sandy deserts when used for the desert climates or badlands in combination with semi-arid climates)
Wilderness: Infertile Grassland (can be used in combination with the humid continental climate for a transition zone with the steppe climate)
Low fertility Farmland
Medium fertility Very fertile farmland
High fertility: Irrigated farmland
Hills: Hills
Low mountains: Mountains
High Mountains: Alpine peaks
Sparse forest: Open/Sparse woodland
Dense forest: (Dense) Forest
Beach: shrubland
This system would also be a lot easier for campaign map textures, it would also makes it easier for me to merge ground types (rocky and sandy desert) and to have better transitions between for example continental and steppe. It would also work better with my movement system since it would allow more use of the "swamp" ground type (for my movement system it's better to limit movement on many tiles)
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Ground types.......
As far as the cultivated land is concerned, I'd personally prefer to distinguish between pasture and arable land. Gradations in actual fertility are largely accounted for by climate zones on the campaign map and terrain related gradations should be taken care of in descr_geography for the battle_maps. So, what remains would be variations due to things like lithology? I doubt that's worth spending 3 groundtypes on (4 if you count wilderness, which you might, as it too tends to be open country).
I would rather not re-purpose the beach. I think it's got some special properties that would make it hard to use elsewhere, thought I cannot be sure as I never tried it.
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Here are some more resources from Suppanut:
for roman road, using this
http://orbis.stanford.edu/
basically, if you open map on ancient trade network, any trade route that not following river would mean that it is ancient road or trail
https://fchknols.wordpress.com/article/roman-europe/
here also contain map of road/trail networks but may be a bit difficult to read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_roads
for area outside roman empire in Europe, Via Regia and Via Imperia are important european trail which become road by time of dark age, so you could using them
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Via_Imperii_und_Via_Regia.png/1200px-Via_Imperii_und_Via_Regia.png
https://biblioteczka.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/hg_mitte.jpg
http://www.radozamok.com.ua/images/hp_map/map_en.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Ancient_Levant_routes.png
This is dark age road but i think it still useful
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_E6txa6oBew8/TD3j5DcJ9sI/AAAAAAAAAls/neasrDGZ1WY/s1600/route+kaart+europa.jpg
amber road
http://www.ambergallery.lt/img/pics/gk1enen.jpg
http://www.szlaki-kulturowe.pl/upload/image/mapa_bursztynu.JPG
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/39/be/a1/39bea14d310a72b94d7344300833e995.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Amber_sources_in_Europe.jpg
Royal road of persia
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/achaemenids/images/royal_road_map.gif
http://bighistoryu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Map_achaemenid_empire_en.png
Central Asia is basically following silkroad
Area of Russian steppe is a bit difficult
but we could follow trade route in dark age and nomad trail before founding of Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muravsky_Trail
in case he confuse about map, try to plotting modern city on the RTR's map to see what route should look like in game
And Xeofox, our expert from Kazakhstan
https://files.slack.com/files-tmb/T1UFBNERX-F2Z5B3F0C-e2cdd071b1/2016-11-07_11-15-46_720.png
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Last link doesn't work for some reason
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As far as the cultivated land is concerned, I'd personally prefer to distinguish between pasture and arable land. Gradations in actual fertility are largely accounted for by climate zones on the campaign map and terrain related gradations should be taken care of in descr_geography for the battle_maps. So, what remains would be variations due to things like lithology? I doubt that's worth spending 3 groundtypes on (4 if you count wilderness, which you might, as it too tends to be open country).
Here's my new suggestion, the problem is that many aspects of ground types are hard-coded so not everything is possible:
Swamp: Wilderness (this would be used for sandy deserts when used for the desert climates or badlands in combination with semi-arid climates) ;hard coded: movement penalty
Wilderness: Rangeland ;hard coded: shares uncultivated strat map texture with low fertility
Low fertility: Pasture ;hard coded: campaign map texture will change gradually when farm upgrades are build (but you can also use the same texture), farms will appear on the battlemap when farms are build, but those can be removed
Medium fertility: Arable land ;hard coded: campaign map texture will change gradually when farm upgrades are build (but you can also use the same texture), farms will appear on the battlemap when farms are build, but those can be removed
High fertility: Very fertile arable land ;hard coded: campaign map texture will change gradually when farm upgrades are build (but you can also use the same texture), farms will appear on the battlemap when farms are build, but those can be removed
Hills: Hills ;hard coded: bumps appear on the campaign map
Low mountains: Mountains ;hard-coded: impassable
High Mountains: Alpine peaks ;hard-coded: impassable, peaks appear on the campaign map
Sparse forest: Open/Sparse woodland ;hard coded: armies can use it to ambush other armies, sparse trees appear on the campaign map, but can be removed
Dense forest: (Dense) Forest ;hard coded: impassable, dense trees appear on the campaign map, looks weird if the trees are removed
Beach: dense shrubland (we can keep it as coast if you want) ;hard coded: nothing as far as I know
many other things like forest and shrub density, relief, micro ground types, e.t.c. can be edited in descr_geography.db
I would rather not re-purpose the beach. I think it's got some special properties that would make it hard to use elsewhere, thought I cannot be sure as I never tried it.
RSIII uses it as a desert groundtype and it works well
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Brief update. Here's an overview of where I'm at. Basically the coastline, the regions, the capital settlements and rivers are on the map. Put a shaded relief map under it. Currently working on roads, fords and ports. It will be a while until the next update.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/Muizer/Snapshot_zps9guhsges.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Muizer/media/Snapshot_zps9guhsges.png.html)
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Outstanding job mate, this looks awesome!
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Is the whole Baltic, half of near Russia, & Scandinavia actually one supermassive region? Looks very dominant on the map (though I guess we're at the number of regions cap whatever that is?)
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In VII we used a 'terra incognita' region for all 'dead space', but currently there's no region reserved for that.
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Thule can represent it
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Remember that we will need to sacrifice 2 regions for the indian ocean/red sea/persian gulf and caspian sea. If we don't do this it would cause issues with the AI.
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If you are talking about having separate sea regions, I don't think it's worth it. From previous talks with other modders, it doesn't seem to really make a difference. Also, this is the best regions map that I've ever put together, and I'd hate to sacrifice a region for a sea region that won't even be paid attention to.
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If the regional colors for major, not connected, water bodies are the same then the AI will treat them as a continuous sea region in it's invade calculations. Meaning India will treat England as being able to be invaded by sea from India. Naval invasion as such are fairly rare so a trial cold be done with just one sea region color.
Minor sea\lake regions completely enclosed by a region are best to be filled with the region's color after map work is concluded.
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Brief update. I've been working on the infrastructure. Covered the Roman Empire so far. As mentioned before, maps of ancient routes outside the empire are literally a lot more sketchy, so while fewer regions are in play it's going to be hard to impart a sense of authenticity in those parts. Will keep you posted.
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Thanks for the update, was wondering how things were going.
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Another brief update. I'm quite close to wrapping up the infrastructure. With regions and features approaching their final form I intend to start testing and debugging them this weekend.
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Good stuff! :)
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Great news, M!
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Back from a brief holiday. Today, after plenty of debugging, loaded the map without error. However, to do so without getting a scrolling ctd I need to re-purpose one region to cover much of the Volga river basin, connecting Scandinavia and the baltic region to the regions north of the Caspian sea. So, I'm looking for a small region to sacrifice.......
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Thanks for the update mate, glad to see a lot of progress has been made. Hope you had a blast on your holiday! :D
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Hey Muizer, thanks for the update. You can take out Thule which is in Norway and change it to Exapolis. It's on the eastern side of the Don river where it bends going northwest.
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It is the region that has Thule's as its capital needs to be split in two. That means I need a region from somewhere else that is neither that region, nor adjacent to it.
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Can you get on slack? We will discuss it there
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So as promised a little screen. Beware, this is still with uniformal climates and groundtypes, so not much to look at except to get a sense of the scale. This is maximally zoomed out.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/Muizer/prev_zpsrf4rxilu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Muizer/media/prev_zpsrf4rxilu.jpg.html)
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The grandeur of the map... I love it! Great job, M!
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Lovely work :) (And yay, pictures I can put in newsletters to help plug you guys!)
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Wouldn't publish anything untill it's done. The map has bugs that I've so far been unable to fix. May even have to go back to the drawing board on the whole thing......
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Can you elaborate on the bugs?
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Scrolling CTD in a couple of places. They appear as soon as I add the features map. As there is nothing wrong with that map technically, the most plausible explanation is that it has to do with pathfinding.
From there on it becomes quite speculative. The consensus on this kind of issue is that very large regions are to blame and splitting them up can resolve the issue. I don't think this is quite true, but there can certainly be issues with capitals being too far from their nearest neighbour. They will not see, or be seen by, their neighbours. If, furthermore, there are obstacles (rivers) in the way, a crash may result.
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Thanks for clarifying!
Although I am the biggest mapping amateur, I can safely say that I'm sure it's not due to very large regions. Last month I've made a very crude map with 182 regions, and one of them that I used for Terra Incognita takes up 40-50% of the entire map (which is 156x255 in map_regions), yet the map works without crashes. So I'd say the problem is elsewhere, but I'm really not qualified to estimate where exactly. Fingers crossed you find the culprit!
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I'm also hoping this could be resolved. There seems to be so much unwanted land especially in the north. Isn't there a way to condense this?
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Actually, Muizer can you please get on slack tomorrow? I have a plan for a better map if this one proves to be futile. It'd greatly reduce the amount of empty land.
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Well after many trials and tribulations I think I've resolved the issues. It's still a bit of guess work but I think there were two separate ones, of which one is the norther expanse. As Vrosius points out, a huge region should not be a problem per se (we have one for the Sahara too) but combining it with lots of rivers seems to be too much to ask. So, I took those out.
Anyway, happy to hear other suggestions, although this map layout was actually chosen expressly to condense areas away from the map center. Coverage would be fine, if it weren't for the couple of regions in the top right corner responsible for stretching the map north.
I'll get on slack later today. Need to get some fresh air and shopping first...............
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Well after many trials and tribulations I think I've resolved the issues. It's still a bit of guess work but I think there were two separate ones, of which one is the norther expanse. As Vrosius points out, a huge region should not be a problem per se (we have one for the Sahara too) but combining it with lots of rivers seems to be too much to ask. So, I took those out.
Anyway, happy to hear other suggestions, although this map layout was actually chosen expressly to condense areas away from the map center. Coverage would be fine, if it weren't for the couple of regions in the top right corner responsible for stretching the map north.
I'll get on slack later today. Need to get some fresh air and shopping first...............
Great job man! Glad you worked it out ;D
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Hey muizer, when you see this please get on slack, I was able to give a visual of my idea
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Muizer, if you check this today please get on slack
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Well I'm there now. Don't know for how long though........
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Hey all, I promised Ahowl a roadmap for the map.
I currently have a version of the map that consists of the following elements
- A regions map that I expect to be close to the one that will eventually be implemented.
- A ground types map that is a basic division between land, beach and sea.
- A an overlay of the infrastructure of the map at ground types resolution.
- A features map with corresponding fords.
- A placeholder climates map.
- A nearly finished height map.
- A descr_strat from which I have removed everything with a coordinate, except a leader for each faction.
My current project is to build the actual climates map. Technically, that's not a very critical or demanding task per se. The main job will be the coding that's involved in redefining some of the existing climates. I will put that off until later, as it does not impact the map functionality.
At this point, I should have everything I need to build the ground types map, which will be the next phase.
After that, everything that has a coordinate to it will need to be transferred to the new map. Everything that gets added that needs to move will have to be placed on the tiles of the infrastructure and settlements I referred to earlier. If we stick to that, further developments of the map on one hand and its coding on the other should in most cases be able to proceed without conflict.
Finally, there's going to be a lot of testing. Part of the charm of data based mapping, is that once everything comes together, the variety of localities created is greater than any paint job could ever achieve, but with it comes the risk of unforeseen problems. I'm trying to preempt them more than I ever have, but I am under no illusion that it will all be smooth sailing. If not for technical issues, then because we're bound to find that the historically sound disposition of things will be beyond the capabilities of the AI in some cases.
Timeframes? I aim to have a map ready to be populated before the summer.
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Hey all, I promised Ahowl a roadmap for the map.
I currently have a version of the map that consists of the following elements
- A regions map that I expect to be close to the one that will eventually be implemented.
- A ground types map that is a basic division between land, beach and sea.
- A an overlay of the infrastructure of the map at ground types resolution.
- A features map with corresponding fords.
- A placeholder climates map.
- A nearly finished height map.
- A descr_strat from which I have removed everything with a coordinate, except a leader for each faction.
My current project is to build the actual climates map. Technically, that's not a very critical or demanding task per se. The main job will be the coding that's involved in redefining some of the existing climates. I will put that off until later, as it does not impact the map functionality.
At this point, I should have everything I need to build the ground types map, which will be the next phase.
After that, everything that has a coordinate to it will need to be transferred to the new map. Everything that gets added that needs to move will have to be placed on the tiles of the infrastructure and settlements I referred to earlier. If we stick to that, further developments of the map on one hand and its coding on the other should in most cases be able to proceed without conflict.
Finally, there's going to be a lot of testing. Part of the charm of data based mapping, is that once everything comes together, the variety of localities created is greater than any paint job could ever achieve, but with it comes the risk of unforeseen problems. I'm trying to preempt them more than I ever have, but I am under no illusion that it will all be smooth sailing. If not for technical issues, then because we're bound to find that the historically sound disposition of things will be beyond the capabilities of the AI in some cases.
Timeframes? I aim to have a map ready to be populated before the summer.
That sounds great mate, thank you for your hard work!
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Yes, sounds good - look forward to seeing what comes out of it :)
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Thank you muizer hopefully we will be ready to roll with it as well.
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Time for another update. I've begun putting all the pieces together for a ground types map and I can show some preliminary results.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/Muizer/Alexander/preview_zpsx0mv2hu1.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Muizer/media/Alexander/preview_zpsx0mv2hu1.png.html)
Italian Gaul.
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Ook, looks pretty - good stuff :)
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Haven't checked here in awhile but my goodness it's beautiful!
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Yis :) As a heads up, we might be doing some board reorganisation soon: shouldn't affect RTR too much, you'll still be basically in the same place but more RTW & non-RTW mods may be bundled up together.
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Hey guys,
Yes I'm still around. Still working on the map every now and then, but I cannot deny progress has been very slow. Just wanted you to know I've not disappeared yet, and I'll finish the job.
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Good to see you whenever you're around, as usual! :)
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Great, thanks Muizer :)
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Great to hear from you, M! Thank you! ;D
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Tnx guys. There's some tough work yet to be done, but I can give you a pretty final overview of what remains now for the map. It's all down to efficient use of climates and ground types now.
RTR 8 Climate outline:
I think the following 9 major climates are required for our map. I have underlined RL biomes and climate zones that we should then implement through ground types**.
1) A pine forest climate with snow in winter.
Taiga and alpine forest, and tundra.
2) A deciduous forest climate with snow in winter.
Central european forest, forest steppe.
3) A steppe climate
Tall grass steppe and arid short grass steppe
4) A deciduous forest climate without snow in winter
Temperate forest
5) A sclerophylous forest and scrubland climate without snow in winter
Mediterranean forest and Mediterranean forest scrubland
6) An cool arid scrubland climate (frost, no snow)
7) An cool arid desert climate (frost, no snow)
rocky desert, sand dunes
8 ) A hot arid scrubland climate
savanna, scrubland
9) A hot arid desert climate
rocky desert, sand dunes
This gives us 3 more climates to play with and I suggest using them for floodplains and waterlogged areas**:
1) Temperate forest and swamp climate
2) Boreal forest and swamp climate
3) Tropical floodplain vegetation (the Nile, Mesopotamia)
One of these can be mixed in with each of the above 9 to create some extra variety.
Just want to stress that this is not another theoretical excercise, but the result of actually delineating those 9 main climate areas on a map. The bits that are yet to be done I've marked with **.
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Your climate system doesn't include a Mediterranean swamp climate nor a temperate swamp climate without snow in winter so I suggest to do the following:
1) Temperate forest and swamp climate => Maritime swamp, no snow, also used in italy, iberia, hellas, etc
2) Boreal forest and swamp climate => Continental swamp, snow in winter, mixed pine and deciduous trees, the latter mostly birches.
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That sounds about right I think. I would go for a strict division of tree species between dry land and wetland. Birch indeed, for the cold wetlands. I'd say poplar for the temperate/mediterranean one, but we surely have more species available.
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Could we also use the maritime wetland climate to represent temperate rainforests?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Temperate_rainforest_map.svg
Also does this part of descr_vegetation.txt looks good? It's still a work in progress. All commented out trees still have to be made or taken from Roma Surrectum II and optimized.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Maritime climates
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Maritime - Mediterranean forest / Mediterranean shrubland
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
vegetation RTR8_maritime_mediterranean_forest
{
layout 1024 rtr8_pine_forest_layout.tga
radius 2
height_range 0.1 1.0
aspect_range 0.6 1.4
lod trees
model pinus_halepensis ;taken from RSII and optimized
model pinus_pinea ;taken from RSII and optimized
model pinus_nigra ;new
model cypress ;new
}
vegetation RTR8_maritime_mediterranean_forest_winter
{
layout 1024 rtr8_pine_forest_layout.tga
radius 2
height_range 0.1 1.0
aspect_range 0.6 1.4
lod trees
model pinus_halepensis ;taken from RSII and optimized
model pinus_pinea ;taken from RSII and optimized
model pinus_nigra ;new
model cypress ;new
}
vegetation RTR8_maritime_mediterranean_shrub
{
layout 1024 rtr8_pine_shrub_layout.tga
radius 2
height_range 0.1 1.0
aspect_range 0.6 1.4
lod trees
model quercus_suber ;new
model almond_tree ;taken from RSII and optimized
model olive_tree ;taken from RSII and optimized
model olive_tree_2 ;new
}
vegetation RTR8_maritime_mediterranean_shrub_winter
{
layout 1024 rtr8_pine_shrub_layout.tga
radius 2
height_range 0.1 1.0
aspect_range 0.6 1.4
lod trees
model quercus_suber ;new
model almond_tree_winter ;taken from RSII and optimized
model olive_tree ;taken from RSII and optimized
model olive_tree_2 ;new
}
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Maritime - Wetland / Temperate rainforest
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
vegetation RTR8_maritime_wetland_forest
{
layout 1024 rtr8_pine_forest_layout.tga
radius 2
height_range 0.1 1.0
aspect_range 0.6 1.4
lod trees
model quercus_cerris ;taken from RSII and optimized
model pinus_pinaster ;taken from RSII and optimized
; model populus_nigra
; model Castanea sativa
}
vegetation RTR8_maritime_wetland_forest_winter
{
layout 1024 rtr8_pine_forest_layout.tga
radius 2
height_range 0.1 1.0
aspect_range 0.6 1.4
lod trees
model quercus_cerris_winter ;taken from RSII and optimized
model pinus_pinaster ;taken from RSII and optimized
; model populus_nigra_winter
; model castanea_sativa_winter
}
;vegetation RTR8_maritime_wetland_shrub
;{
; layout 1024 rtr8_pine_shrub_layout.tga
; radius 2
; height_range 0.1 1.0
; aspect_range 0.6 1.4
; lod trees
; model carpinus betulus; will be taken from RSII
;}
;vegetation RTR8_maritime_wetland_shrub_winter
;{
; layout 1024 rtr8_pine_shrub_layout.tga
; radius 2
; height_range 0.1 1.0
; aspect_range 0.6 1.4
; lod trees
; model carpinus betulus_winter; will be taken from RSII
;}
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Maritime - Deciduous forest
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
;vegetation RTR8_maritime_oceanic_forest
;{
; layout 1024 rtr8_pine_forest_layout.tga
; radius 2
; height_range 0.1 1.0
; aspect_range 0.6 1.4
; lod trees
; model fagus_sylvatica; will be taken from RSII
; model fagus_sylvatica_2; will be taken from RSII
; model Quercus petraea; will be taken from RSII
; model Quercus robur; will be taken from RSII
;}
;vegetation RTR8_maritime_oceanic_forest_winter
;{
; layout 1024 rtr8_pine_forest_layout.tga
; radius 2
; height_range 0.1 1.0
; aspect_range 0.6 1.4
; lod trees
; model fagus_sylvatica_winter; will be taken from RSII
; model fagus_sylvatica_2_winter; will be taken from RSII
; model Quercus petraea_winter; will be taken from RSII
; model Quercus robur_winter; will be taken from RSII
;}
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@muizer what does fade in in the geography database? I understand most of it, except from that one parameter.
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My understanding is that "fade in" doesn't do an awful lot, though I may be very wrong about that!
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Apologies for the long silence.
Yes fade in seems to do hardly anything.
As for more climates. I'm currently using all of them already. Expect to finish things up coming weekend. Will discuss more then.
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Sounds good, can't wait to see the progress!
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^ Ditto what ahowl said. :)
I keep being tempted to do some climate work, I'd like to have some proper jungles in a couple of my mods, but it always seems rather a pain to get started on...
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@jubal you could help collecting and compressing ground textures in .dds format, it's not hard you just need to make an account on several free and freemium texture libraries and have photoshop installed (for some unknown reason ground textures glitch when you use gimp to compress them to .dds). Make sure to save ground textures in the original 1024x1024 format without compression to avoid quality loss if you have to make edits. Each climate uses 15 textures for each season, there are 2 seasons and 12 climates. One of the climates will be a tropical floodplain and you could make some simple edits to make it look like a jungle in your mods.
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@muizer regarding the climates and ground types: I fixed the issue of forest appearing around settlements, so I can use swamp for something else now: I call it 'nigh-impassable terrain' combined with the boreal climate it becomes snowy even in summer with some tundra, can be used for the Himalayas, Greenland, Iceland and parts of Scandinavia. Combined with deserts it becomes sand dunes. Combined with the three wetland ground types it becomes very wet swamp. I still have to decide what I will use it for when combined with the Mediterranean, semi-arid and temperate deciduous forest climates. Perhaps for very steep tiles? Or to represent very rocky terrain? Regarding both cool and hot deserts: I used hills for hilly rocky deserts, low fertility is sandy, wilderness is even more sandy and swamp is 100% sandy. Sparse forest is used for badlands (I replaced the vegetation with rock formation models with shrubs on the slopes that appear when using this ground type), dense forest stays dense forest. Medium and high fertility are somewhat fertile are more flat, with pebbles, cracked earth, small shrubs, etc. High fertility has a higher density of shrubs.
Also I'm going to make a final update for my unofficial RTRVII patch in which I undo all of my balance changes and big graphical changes and just fix bugs and enhance little things to stay as close to how RTRVII was intended. If you could add one climate, what would it be? (the swamp climate is still unused) Also regarding your semi arid highland climate: I've never seen it on a battle map so could I use that climate for a semi arid climate with snow in winter that could also be used elsewhere on the campaign map?
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Hola Roebbah (should I call you that?)!
It would be really useful to me if you could post your "climate+groundtype = landscape type" matrix.
We need one, because I agree just assuming groundtypes will be the same/compatible across climates is probably too limiting. Use of open forest as scrubland in arid climates seems unavoidable for instance and I guess there will be other "out of character" usages. A departure will mean that any change to climate will have to be accompanied by changes to the groundtypes, but it's probably worth it.
Greets,
Mzr
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Hey Muizer, I made a quick table for you:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y1z3encVDRvUlNALjL6Q__Q5vGPKg1It-hTibarGUZo/edit
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@muizer regarding RTRVII: there's one climate slot unused. I would like to use it to represent a maritime climate with pine trees as the main vegetation. Would you like to create a bitmap of the potential vegetation map, the same size & projection as the RTRVII map so I can use it as an overlay in gimp to determine the the areas that get the new climate? Thank you very much! :) If you would recommend to use the unused climate slot in RTRVII for something else tell me and I will do so. Also regarding the semi-arid mountain climate: it does not appear on any battle map.
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Sigh, ok that proved to be a lot more work than I thought. But, I'm getting there. I now have a version that I can test for functionality. If it works, we can look into the coding and texturing of climates and groundtypes.
For climates, I'm using the following mapping:
- sub-arctic -> boreal pine forest
- fertile grassland -> steppe
- dense forest -> humid continental
all of these interspersed with:
- alpine -> continental wetland
- open Forest -> oceanic
- mediterranean -> mediterranean
interspersed with
- swamp -> temperate wetland
- infertile grassland -> cool semi arid
- semi arid -> hot semi arid
- rocky desert -> cool desert
- sandy desert -> hot desert
interspersed with
- highland -> tropical wetland.
For groundtypes I'm mostly sticking with "what's on the tin" for
- beach,
- open forest
- dense forest
- low mountains
- high mountains
groundtypes varying quite a bit depending on climate are
- wilderness
- swamp
- hills
special mention for the 'fertilities'.
Generally these are
high fertility -> arable land
medium fertility -> mixed farming
low fertility -> grazing.
I have chosen to move cultivated lands under desert climates into the desert's arid counterpart, and repurpose the desert 'fertilities' to cover various variations in ground cover.
Finally, something I am not entirely sure about yet is the use of low mountain groundtype for (impassable) rocky desert.
So, what is next. When can you see it? Well here's the thing. The next step would be to load the thing and debug it, then test it, make adjustments and do the coding and texturing, but tbh, I'm kind of burnt out on the thing and I would like to take a break, so I'm not going to embark on that right now. So, I'm happy to upload the map files somewhere for you, but if I do, don't expect me to process feedback any time soon.
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Please upload, and we can possibly take over from there, and when you want feel free to check in at TWC, we will have a map thread made there. Thanks for all of your help Muizer!
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Would it be possible to upload it to a separate branch in the repository somehow? If not do you have a preferred method of uploading. Not sure how secure this forum is if I post a dl link here.
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This forum is pretty secure.. If you have Git installed etc, just go to Projects/rtrproject and create a new folder called 'Muizers Map' and then commit/push.
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I can never remember where on this forum has passwords as I can see it all anyway, but I can add an extra pass-coded area if you want a more secure zone for transferring files etc.
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I had to reinstall GIT. However, the instructions you once sent me don't seem to be working? Did the repo move?
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http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?754427-Git-Instructions
Follow those instructions, should work.
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getting 'can't find server'
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There are 3 major features which create mod personality. They are strat map, units(and balance), and traits/retinues. Strat map is the first features to player's impression about world of RTR. Which tone strat map's texture you are planning for? Bright and lively like in RTW and M2TW (both different in sea which RTW mirror clear give feeling of classical marble which different from enigmatic Lovecraftian sea of M2TW?)? Or want enigmatic and gloomy feeling from dark tone world like in EB?
Which kind of tone you want for strat map, Muizer?
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Okay I am trying to reboot the server but to no avail. Here are the instructions I was given, but it's not working for me. Anyone who has more experience can give it a shot:
Fixing The SSL Cert Error (Due to Lets Encrypt Expiry) & Upgrade Gitlab
Download Putty
Connect to gitlab.rtrproject.com
User: rtrproject
Pass: jyLidgCPpU1a6eLsW14p7qWiqpRJUL
Once logged in type: “sudo letsencrypt certonly -a webroot --webroot-path=/var/www/letsencrypt -d gitlab.rtrproject.com -d www.gitlab.rtrproject.com”
Choose option to renew
Run “sudo gitlab-ctl restart”
Run “sudo apt-get update && apt-get upgrade”
Select “y”
Profit! Log back in next month
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came across this reported issue which looks very similar regarding the error and error message.
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/omnibus-gitlab/issues/1557
which suggests I'd need something on my end to map the domain name to an IP address?
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There are 3 major features which create mod personality. They are strat map, units(and balance), and traits/retinues. Strat map is the first features to player's impression about world of RTR. Which tone strat map's texture you are planning for? Bright and lively like in RTW and M2TW (both different in sea which RTW mirror clear give feeling of classical marble which different from enigmatic Lovecraftian sea of M2TW?)? Or want enigmatic and gloomy feeling from dark tone world like in EB?
Which kind of tone you want for strat map, Muizer?
I'm not sure that's for me to decide. I can make some suggestions about what I think would work best though. I think it's important to emphasize that the map is strongly influenced by a division in watersheds as landscape units. The typical unit consists, in transect, of mountain peaks, rocky mountain sides, densely forested footslopes and more open/cultivated valley bottoms then up the other side in reverse order. It is important that these sections are very distinct in texturing as well as vegetation model placement. (For the battlemap, that requires some trickery, because vanilla will put forest on the valley bottom ::) ) For reference, I can only say that the RTW vanilla textures are much more suitable for this than the M2TW ones.
I think either gloomy or bright could work. For VII we used slightly desaturated RTW vanilla textures, which gives the map a "look from space" palette, but I think a more saturated and more contrasted texturing (as per above) would give the map a more "close up" feel that could be really nice.
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Any news on the server thing? A I the only one with this problem?
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I can't get it up, and the one who knows how isn't around.. Mod is halted until it gets back up. Feel free to upload it to the dev forum in TWC or here so we can take a look.
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check your twc comms thread