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Messages - dubsartur

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16
I will see what I can do.

The essay by Jake Casella Brookins is trying to use drama on the internet or social media to show something about society in general, and his jeremiad against digital-industrial civilization could be picked at in the details (eg. a smaller proportion of humans are very poor today than any time in the past 150 years, and Mr. Biden actually ended one of the forever wars - and Highland New Guinea had forever wars with neolithic technology).  Classic California sci-fi fandom was full of people who would go to a party and say something provocative and watch the sparks!

17
I don't yet have time to read that and form an opinion, but other essays along those lines are a recent one by Charlie Stross and a strange older essay by David Brin where he set up Star Wars as reactionary and mystical (OK) but Star Trek as a model of rational scientific humanism (um ...)  A lot of powerful people are implementing technologies like buttonless touch-screen interfaces and voice control and orbital space habitats which seemed cool on TV or in Analog magazine when they were 12.

Ursula le Guin has essays on science fiction and fantasy which are also worth reading too.

Stross says something I said in a talk a few years ago:

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SF authors such as myself are popular entertainers who work to amuse an audience that is trained on what to expect by previous generations of science-fiction authors. We are not trying to accurately predict possible futures but to earn a living: any foresight is strictly coincidental. We recycle the existing material—and the result is influenced heavily by the biases of earlier writers and readers. The genre operates a lot like a large language model that is trained using a body of text heavily contaminated by previous LLMs; it tends to emit material like that of its predecessors. Most SF is small-c conservative insofar as it reflects the history of the field rather than trying to break ground or question received wisdom.

Could we change the default styling on this forum so that text in BlockQuotes is at least as tall and weighty as in the body of a post?

18
A software person in the USA just told his followers that big parts of this (gestures to the thread) are just a typical California apocalyptic cult as has been common since the 1930s.  That person has a cryptocurrency address and wants you to know that spicy autocorrect will change everything for the good as creatives become AI-feeders.  A typical California Ideology is that if we turn everything into data and feed it into the computer our problems will be solved, and if actually existing computers don't seem so helpful we just need to give them more power.

So there are a lot of messages about the impending doom or rebirth of the world circulating in parts of these spaces, and someone can reject one of them ("my company which is currently raising funds with several well-known VC firms is not building Skynet" or "anomalous sensor readings on classified hardware are neither aliens nor angels") but fall for others.

The NXIVM cult / self-help movement / pyramid scheme was also based in New York City and had many tropes which will be familiar to anyone who has looked into all of this (lots of bad Latin, 'rationality', 'doing well by doing good', a male Leader surrounded by adoring women)

19
Anyways, I guess my point is that xenophobes who cry "Christian Constantinople is threatened by the oriental Islamic hordes!" never actually want to see more Ethiopian Christians or Syrian Christians in their country, so they don't really feel fellowship with all Christians.  And their inclusion of live Greeks or Neapolitans or Bulgarians in their imagined community is often provisional and tactical.

20
General Chatter - The Boozer / Re: February pub - 29th?
« on: February 29, 2024, 06:59:39 PM »
Got the message about the meeting but there are no mods yet

21
But Syrians and Egyptians before 1071 and arguably 1204 were mostly Orthodox Christians!  For a long time, Moslems were just a thin ruling class and Jews, Christians, Manicheans, Mandaeans, and so on provided most of the white-tunic professions.

This series of posts https://thonyc.wordpress.com/2024/01/24/from-%cf%84%e1%bd%b0-%cf%86%cf%85%cf%83%ce%b9%ce%ba%ce%ac-ta-physika-to-physics-xiv/ and Wiki on Ibn Butlan talk about one aspect

And of course when you get into it Protestant nuts don't think Catholics are really Christian, Catholic nuts don't think any of the Orthodox churches are really Christian, etc. - if you argue that Christianity Caused the Rise of the West, but the Eastern Roman Empire fell, its very tempting to argue that the Orthodox churches had something wrong with them.

And the appetite among PEGIDA types for "lets let in all the oppressed minorities of the Islamic world!  Palestinian Christians, Syrian Yazidis, Iranian Baha'i, as long as they are not Moslem we want them in our shops and our schools." seems basically zero.  Talky members might raise the idea as a gambit, but I can not imagine any Xenophobe Party franchise voting for it.

22
Does it overlap with the people who invoke the Continental Races Theory to say "Syrians and North Africans are totally white, someone from Roman north Africa is not a person of colour?" then go back to being bigoted against anyone who looks like their ancestors didn't drink beer and eat butter?

The post could spell out that the QAnon posters are alluding to a Russian crank theory that all history before the foundation of the Russian state was made up.

23
"Byzantium is, like most medieval history, frequently coopted by certain sorts of fascist", which I think would be much higher on my list of Byzantine related misconceptions for any kind of semi-public-facing outlet.
Wait, what?  In 25 years of being aware of far rightists I don't think I have seen that one.

24
A collection of short essays on the eastern Roman empire https://www.historytoday.com/archive/head-head/what-do-we-get-wrong-about-byzantine-empire  I have to say that paragraphs like:

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Emperors routinely announced that tax revenues would be used for the common good and public interest, not for private advantage. They made good on this by spending most of their money on a pan-Roman army for the defence of all provinces. Furthermore, they welcomed petitions and appeals from their subjects on matters legal and fiscal – and answered them. They issued laws that enabled those subjects to bring formal complaints against the abuses of officials. Emperors presented themselves as protectors of the weak and poor against the oppression of ‘the powerful’. Overall, I believe they persuaded their subjects of their sincerity. As a result, subjects paid taxes, generally followed the law, and did not seek to break away from central control.

make me think they should read some Achaemenid or Chinese history (ie. they are calling Central Casting, they make a request that they think is specific, and Central Casting puts down the phone and says "secretary, get five agrarian empires in for an audition").

25
Yes, you could write to the WorldCon committee and suggest replacing the Hugos with The Pentugo Awards, as decided every year by Pentagathus and nobody else. I'm not sure how well it would go for you, but you could suggest it.
Good news everyone!
They agreed. Feel free to bow and scrape.
Great Ghu, just remember to save us some historical documents!

26
After the collapse of MetaMed (the startup which promised to revolutionize medical care through the power of LessWrong Rationalism!) Sarah Constantin wrote essays like: https://srconstantin.github.io/2017/08/08/the-craft-is-not-the-community.html

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It seems to me that the increasingly ill-named “Rationalist Community” in Berkeley has, in practice, a core value of “unconditional tolerance of weirdos.” It is a haven for outcasts and a paradise for bohemians. It is a social community based on warm connections of mutual support and fun between people who don’t fit in with the broader society.

We’ve built, over the years, a number of sharehouses, a serious plan for a baugruppe, preliminary plans for an unschooling center, and the beginnings of mutual aid organizations and dispute resolution mechanisms. We’re actually doing this. It takes time, but there’s visible progress on the ground.

I live on a street with my friends as neighbors. Hardly anybody in my generation gets to say that.

What we’re not doing well at, as a community, is external-facing projects.

I have heard the same kind of phrasing from people in other geeky cultures which emerged out of SoCal, such as the Society for Creative Anachronism.  And the way these communities have sometimes ended up covering for members who commit violent crimes, let alone a bit of embezzlement, has been written about elsewhere.

Edit: she has another post from 2017 Effective Altruism has a Lying problem https://srconstantin.github.io/2017/01/17/ea-has-a-lying-problem.html

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if there are signs that EA orgs, as they grow and professionalize, are deliberately targeting growth among less-critical, less-intellectually-engaged, lower-integrity donors, while being dismissive towards intelligent and serious critics, which I think some of the discussions I’ve quoted on the GWWC pledge suggest, then it makes me worry that they’re trying to get money out of people’s weaknesses rather than gaining from their strengths.

I think that somehow these movements were good at creating both online spaces and social scenes in key areas such as Oxford, Greater NYC, and the SF Bay Area (did not know about Berkeley).  I have to be honest that this kind of commune culture is totally beyond my experience.  But it would be relevant to know (for example) did Dominic Cummings just read their web postings, or was he part of the face-to-face culture?  And how did this geeky SoCal community end up controlling real money, when the LA SF Society mostly just held meetings and argued with each other?  Close-knit nerdy communities have been full of drama since Plato died and his students had to decide who was in charge of the Academy, or the Pythagoreans tossed someone off a boat for proving there are irrational numbers.

27
Yeah, I think that's fair. Though I wonder if people fear that in a split languages award series the non English languages end up not being the "grand prize" that gets wider attention etc because the English language prize ends up retaining the core prestige. And which languages get to have their own award? Does one set a limit by nominations, or is the whole system for the German Hugos run wholly separately and needs its own committee (which given language barriers is likely)?  So yes, I think I agree with you but separating by language may have headaches too.
I don't think you will ever change that English readers mostly care about things published in English, Twitter fans think Twitter posts are the most important type of posts, or post-neo-goth-metal fans ignore neo-goth-metal.  Its just human nature that people promote things that come from within their communities and hide things from outside them.  Even before English was a global prestige language not many English speakers read Montaigne or Karl Marx or Isaac Newton in the original, most knew these authors through summaries in English.

But you could have a Chinese Hugo which was the most famous award for Chinese-language science fiction but everyone else ignored, like the classic Hugo is the premier award for English-language science fiction which everyone else ignores.

I think anyone who is good at organizing fandom could find a pretty good test for which languages have enough organized fans to support a major literary award.

28
I can see an argument for Chinese or German or Korean Hugos for fiction in languages other than English, but not for including both on the same ballot.  That would just become a popularity contest between English-readers and Chinese-readers.

It has been extremely difficult for a long time to read all nominated works in one language (most scrupulous voters pick a few categories and vote for those)

29
Am I right that they included Chinese-language and English-language works on the same ballots?  I don't see how people could vote for a literary award which includes works in languages which only some voters can read (and a translation is not the same thing as the original, the differences can be quite substantial and what makes a work notable for one audience can make it meh for another).

Many people involved in fandom (not at all the same as fans!) seem convinced that something fishy happened.

30
An (rolls dice) effective altruist from (rolls dice) New York with a background in (rolls dice) trading assets at Jane Street has written a longform retrospective on SBF which starts "anyone could have been fooled!" but then moves on to "wait, after SBF offered me a job, after one conversation with someone familiar with financial fraud I had several dozen questions for him, and the first time I talked to a friend outside the world of finance he said 'this business sounds like a scam.'" It does not ask why effective altruists and LessWrong rationalists keep being involved in major frauds, scams, and cult-like movements beyond "moving people to another country, working them long hours, and encouraging them to date each other makes it easy to manipulate them." https://asteriskmag.com/issues/05/michael-lewis-s-blind-side

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