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Going Witchering

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Gmd:

I agree with all your points especially the time based decision making. Some quests are not obvious that completing or accepting them locks off other quests, especially regarding the romance stuff. Yeah gwent just doesnt work if u have certain cards you always win. They fortunately balanced it for the standalone game.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
* Great ending, i do agree with you the "choices" can feel very hard to work out and some of the options sound very similar but have different results. I do feel like the game struggles in its final act and eredins fight is underwhelming.
* 100% i always felt the djikstra stuff is incredibily out of character for him. After Geralts specially choosing a side and helping kill radovid he somehow thinks geralt will remain neutral. doesnt make much sense to me. but i love the philipa/radovid stuff.
* shame you didnt end up with who you wanted, some simple dialogue can really mess you over here. The game throws Triss at you early game then lets you get to know yennifer late game in skellige, so you can quite easily mess up romance or feel like changing your mind which messes with it. Or end up romancing both and getting neither (though the scene is funny if you do this) as i did first playthrough.few spoilery questions, what were your favourite side quests? I personally like the serial killer quest who attacks priscilla.
Did you encounter the quest with letho (if you let him live in W2)? one of my favourites as he can join you at kaer morhen.
Did you enjoy the battle of kaer morhen? It was one of my favourite story quests.
Did you take Ciri back to chat with charles dance (emhyr)?




I think you'll enjoy the dlc's even more as they have a much more concise story and blood and wine definitely will give you even more "finality and a more neatly defined end state". I think blood and wine contains my favourite story and could easily be a stand alone game and hearts of stone has my favourite quest. Let me know what you think of them both!

Jubal:
Answers to GMD's questions above, quite spoilery:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
--- Quote ---What were your favourite side quests? I personally like the serial killer quest who attacks priscilla.
--- End quote ---
Hm, tricky! The ball with Triss was fun, honestly, and I really loved the haunted house with the Godling in Novigrad (I guess that's actually a main quest come to think of it). It was sort of a pity you ended up on bad terms with the Nilfgaardian lady you give swordfighting lessons to who needed her world-views challenged a bit more. Oh, and the high stakes Gwent tournament, apart from the incredibly annoying fist fight to the death in the middle of it the rest was really good.


--- Quote ---Did you encounter the quest with letho (if you let him live in W2)? one of my favourites as he can join you at kaer morhen.
--- End quote ---
Yes! The mistrust between him and the Temerian duo is quite fun.


--- Quote ---Did you enjoy the battle of kaer morhen? It was one of my favourite story quests.
--- End quote ---
I did, though I'd have liked more follow up, especially since it returns you to KM after the endgame and you can arrange for Letho to stay. Like, I get the whole "Vesemir is dead, Eskel and Lambert don't see a reason to stay" but also... I still think of Kaer Morhen as Geralt's home, for better and worse alike, and I'd have been interested to see what might happen to it. Especially with the whole training Ciri as a witcher thing (and the consequent recognition that Witchers don't strictly have to be Witchers in the trial-of-grasses sense). I sort of like the idea that with it stopping being a Witcher hold, Geralt would start trying to find a new way for it as a general home of friends, misfits, and monster hunters.


--- Quote ---Did you take Ciri back to chat with charles dance (emhyr)?
--- End quote ---
I didn't, and felt that was a mistake in retrospect: I might well have gone toward the Empress ending otherwise which I think might have been quite good, as much as Ciri the witcher is a fun one to have.


Also, I think I'm most of the way through Hearts of Stone now (just finished the paintings bit). General thoughts and one mid-length rant:

* Definitely very much feels like a new story. Still a bit odd after the finality of the main game's endgame, but I actually quite like it (that is, between the two I'd have considered leaving the endgame states more open, because I want to feel more optimistic for my Geralt's endings again with the new storylines and Dandelion already having told us "and yes he was always poor and lonely forever" feels a bit of a bummer).
* OK, the frog prince switcheroo thing is quite fun and very much the kind of silly fairytale-twist I actually like out of those games. Though it does feel weird that Geralt doesn't even manage to work out the possibility that it might be cursed or consider curse-breaking options.
* Sad that you can't stay with Shani, I actually did the romance options there and they worked out for once so felt a bit of a pity you couldn't get more of a happy ending with her.
I really liked the wedding section, it just felt very nicely written and good fun.
* Also re said wedding, I often feel like I'm a bit out of place playing Geralt as I'm too dissimilar to him, so well done to CDPR for creating a character I have to play who I'm so much less similar to that it makes me feel comparatively comfortable to be back playing Geralt.
* I'm not sure who hurt the person who designed the first couple of boss fights at the Everec mansion, but I'm very sorry for whatever happened to them, as dear gods those were horribly designed and executed and show a disdain for my own human suffering that, whilst thematically of a piece with the themes of the DLC, was also annoying as hell. I didn't die, or even come at risk of dying, in either: they were just really grindy and boring and frustrating to complete. In the first, the healing mechanic is quite OP, and the correct strategy which is "land like one hit then roll back because every time the thing hits you it heals itself massively, rinse and repeat" I had to look up mostly because I couldn't believe someone would design such a horrifically boring grind of a boss fight. Like at least give me some other options: turn the healing off for a bit if I dimeritium bomb the thing or something (I tried this, no dice).
 
Then the second boss fight was somehow even worse, I actually intuited the strategy wholly correctly and then still had to look it up because the game makes executing the strategy so difficult that I'd assumed I must have gotten it wrong: you have to damage the healing points for the boss when it goes into healing mode to stop it healing up, but also at least in my PC version the game doesn't target-lock you onto those points even if you're closer to them than to the boss, so most of the time you end up rolling over, trying to flame the point, then the game automatically turns you round to uselessly point flames at the boss who's a) not in range and b) healing up rapidly as you do it. What about using a crossbow, which you can aim? Well, dear reader, the boss is so quick and you're in such an enclosed space that the boss constantly interrupts you pulling the crossbow out. So your best option is "flail with a sword and hope" which whilst it does sum up much of my gameplay in the Witcher 3 does feel like it shouldn't be the ideal plan A in most situations.

Jubal:
And that's more or less it - done Blood and Wine, thus all the witchering has been done (unless I decide to try replaying the games to get different outcomes etc, not sure how likely that is but I've no plans to start on it immediately).

Blood and Wine thoughts:

* Toussaint is SO PRETTY and it's such a relief after how grey and grim the rest of the game is. Not that it's wholly lacking in darkness, but just the general feeling of light and colour is lovely.
* Also, silly fantasy France is always an enjoyable theme to run with. And I like Toussaint more than Orlais by and large, though I guess in Toussaint you get to see a lot more detail and day to day life which is the sort of thing I like a lot.
* Regis is a very good character and was very enjoyable. Other than Regis, the character & companion end of the DLC was its weakest part, but it was still very good.
* The sidequests are really nice and very enjoyable. I really like the Wine Wars line, the tournaments and gwent bits were fun even though I messed them up (didn't win either the Gwent or actual tournament). The painter & barber quests in Beauclair were good.
* The lack of romance was actually kind of a pity. I wanted Geralt to just have someone nice to settle down on his vineyard with (which I think as much as anything speaks to the fact that Geralt and I do not have the same wants when it comes to women, but still).
* Small negative, I wanted to put in some much bigger windows in Corvo Bianco because it was so damn dark inside I couldn't see anything. One thing the Witcher could do with learning is that light from anything bigger than a small candle actually gets room-filling much more easily than they seem to think.
* Big plus, we got to see the lady again and got Aerondight back! Honestly this made me almost more happy than anything else in the DLC, the original scene where you get the sword in the first game is one of my most memorable ones from the entire trilogy, because I love all the silly faux Arthuriana stuff the Witcher throws in sometimes and the thing of Geralt being uncomfortably pushed into that classical hero role. I would absolutely play any Witcher game that just had Geralt awkwardly having to do various classic quests from medieval epics.
* Frustrating but good final thought: it felt more like a new beginning than an ending to me. We had references to past characters, but it didn't feel like "here's a send-off love letter to the series" so much as a "hey look what else we can do with this character and world" which is lovely but now I'm a bit sad there won't be more.
And some spoilery thoughts on the ending:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)OK, the ending was good but didn't completely land for me, and I don't think that's just because I got "the wrong ending". I think what they were trying to do with Syanna and Detlaff, making them both semi-sympathetic, didn't quite work given how utterly horrific the things they were doing were. Both of them are utterly at fault doing extremely gruesome murders, which for me went way beyond "OK, I can see how this character's tragic backstory has led them here and see a redemption path for them". I got the "good" ending where Syanna and Annarietta make up, and it just felt like Syanna was getting a really big and very unearned happy ending and the focus has been pulled right off the actual horrors that had happened to boil it down to a family spat. That kind of feels like the opposite of what the Witcherverse does when it works well, which is often showing how the family spats of rulers lead to actual horrors rather than minimising the latter to discuss the former.

It was nice all the same, and having Ciri visit Corvo Bianco was a very cute touch.

Gmd:
Yes so glad you played the DLC's finally! Toussaint is one of my favourite locations to chill in and i think master mirror is a really good villain.
 
--- Quote from: Jubal on October 26, 2021, 11:50:43 AM ---

* Sad that you can't stay with Shani, I actually did the romance options there and they worked out for once so felt a bit of a pity you couldn't get more of a happy ending with her.
I really liked the wedding section, it just felt very nicely written and good fun.
* Also re said wedding, I often feel like I'm a bit out of place playing Geralt as I'm too dissimilar to him, so well done to CDPR for creating a character I have to play who I'm so much less similar to that it makes me feel comparatively comfortable to be back playing Geralt.
* I'm not sure who hurt the person who designed the first couple of boss fights at the Everec mansion, but I'm very sorry for whatever happened to them, as dear gods those were horribly designed and executed and show a disdain for my own human suffering that, whilst thematically of a piece with the themes of the DLC, was also annoying as hell. I didn't die, or even come at risk of dying, in either: they were just really grindy and boring and frustrating to complete. In the first, the healing mechanic is quite OP, and the correct strategy which is "land like one hit then roll back because every time the thing hits you it heals itself massively, rinse and repeat" I had to look up mostly because I couldn't believe someone would design such a horrifically boring grind of a boss fight. Like at least give me some other options: turn the healing off for a bit if I dimeritium bomb the thing or something (I tried this, no dice).
 
Then the second boss fight was somehow even worse, I actually intuited the strategy wholly correctly and then still had to look it up because the game makes executing the strategy so difficult that I'd assumed I must have gotten it wrong: you have to damage the healing points for the boss when it goes into healing mode to stop it healing up, but also at least in my PC version the game doesn't target-lock you onto those points even if you're closer to them than to the boss, so most of the time you end up rolling over, trying to flame the point, then the game automatically turns you round to uselessly point flames at the boss who's a) not in range and b) healing up rapidly as you do it. What about using a crossbow, which you can aim? Well, dear reader, the boss is so quick and you're in such an enclosed space that the boss constantly interrupts you pulling the crossbow out. So your best option is "flail with a sword and hope" which whilst it does sum up much of my gameplay in the Witcher 3 does feel like it shouldn't be the ideal plan A in most situations.
--- End quote ---
I 100% agree with this, the wedding is one of my favourite quests in the whole game, possessed Geralt is hilarious and Shani/geralt are amazing together. Regarding the bosses...I do find them incredibly weak in this DLC, and you are right to be annoyed by some of their gimmicks, I'm unsure if its better to do hearts of stone at a lower level or not? I did it after the endgame and it does feel a bit off combat wise. Though i think blood and wine fixes both the bosses and the combat well.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)Hearts of stone question
What did you think of master mirror? and how did his story end, did u save olgeird?



--- Quote from: Jubal on December 06, 2021, 05:16:16 PM ---

* Regis is a very good character and was very enjoyable. Other than Regis, the character & companion end of the DLC was its weakest part, but it was still very good.
* The sidequests are really nice and very enjoyable. I really like the Wine Wars line, the tournaments and gwent bits were fun even though I messed them up (didn't win either the Gwent or actual tournament). The painter & barber quests in Beauclair were good.
* The lack of romance was actually kind of a pity. I wanted Geralt to just have someone nice to settle down on his vineyard with (which I think as much as anything speaks to the fact that Geralt and I do not have the same wants when it comes to women, but still).
* Big plus, we got to see the lady again and got Aerondight back!
--- End quote ---

I LOVE Regis, hes an amazing character in the books and to see him ingame was something very special to me as CDPR do a perfect job of imagining the character. It's nice to Geralt to have a friend around who isnt Dandelion or a love interest for a change. Toussaint itself is also in the books and they brought it to life so well.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)I think the ending must of felt a bit annoying without Geralt have getting any romance to settle down with...as it feels out of character for him to settle down without yen or triss. As i really liked it as he settles down with Yen in my playthroughs and it feels earned. Also YES Aerondight! The main thing i love about blood and wine is that it almost feels like a standalone game with a lot of content.


I really liked the story, but i do agree they both go well past redemption, but i like how it plays out down that path...The other path is very dark, but the final quest is completely different and very monstery/vampirey with a cameo from dandelion and more book references which i enjoy.
Only question:
Did you like the detlaff fight? At least more than the hearts of stone one
Also i'll leave this here for some Toussaint chill vibes

Jubal:
So for the HoS question:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)I thought Master Mirror was fantastically well played - I thought it created a scale of story we don't get enough of in RPGs where it's more about the people than the Fate Of The World(tm) and I really enjoyed it. I did save Olgierd. My biggest gripe with the end sequence was that working out the riddle (which I did) didn't actually help with the final quest section, which I felt it should've done. Also given the amount of crap I carry in my inventory, and the fact I literally had two shiny shiny swords I could use as mirrors, I ended up kind of annoyed that I couldn't just use that given I knew what I was looking for at the start. So that final sequence only half-landed for me, but Olgierd's farewell was great and Gaunter O'Dimm was super well played.
And for the Blood and Wine question:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Yes, the Detlaff fight was good. Not hugely challenging I felt, I knew what I was getting into and had prepped pretty well, but it was very climactic and Regis finishing him off at the end was a brutally good piece of work.
I didn't feel that Geralt settling down without Yen or Triss was out of character for how I played Geralt... I was sort of almost sad those were the only two romance options, because I kind of almost feel like neither of them is necessarily ideal for Geralt (who I think cares a lot about both of them, but in TW3 he feels older and much more in dad mode and Ciri feels like the real core connection in the game, whereas Yen has understandable but exhausting trust issues and Triss is charming but maybe a bit too political for Geralt). And yeah, I'd absolutely have loved to have had more Regis, he was very good.

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