I have put this discussion off for far too long now, and since we are very close to testing 0.5 I have decided to make this thread for the next version.
So as the title reads, this is only for faction units. No AOR units right now. There will be some factional units that use AOR but that's different. So basically we need to fill up the rosters and make them balanced for the version after 0.5. We will do one faction at a time to concentrate our focus on. This is the time to research and get everything right. I do not plan on changing faction rosters much after we finish this discussion. We will make it easy and start with Rome.
As far as unit models etc, none of them are set in stone from 0.5. All are subject to change. I have put sources of where we can use models/textures for each unit in parenthesis.
This Discussion Thread will go hand in hand with the Unit Workshop! For every unit finalized here, a DMB and EDU entry will need to be made in the unit workshop thread. From that thread, we will be able to keep count of slots being used, and it will help us keep ourselves organized. Also it will be easy to copy/paste the DMB/EDU entries from that thread into the game files.
Roman RepublicWe will not be doing a Camillan roster. After Mausalos had informed me about the slow transformation, I felt as if by the time our game starts that we would basically have a Polybian Roster. A Camillan roster can be reserved for another mod.
Polybian:
Proletarii - Current (Edited)
Velites - RTRPE
Hastati - RTRPE
Principes - RTRPE
Triarii - RTRPE
Equites - RTRPE
Italic Velites - RTRPE (Latin Velites) *AOR Only in Italy
Italic Hastati - RTRPE Unused *AOR Only in Italy
Italic Principes - RTRPE Unused *AOR Only in Italy
Italic Triarii - RTRPE Unused *AOR Only in Italy
Italic Equites - RTRPE Unused *AOR Only in Italy
Pedites Extraordinarii - Maraxus *AOR Only in Italy
Extraordinarii Cavalry - RTRPE (Italian Heavy Cavalry) *AOR Only in Italy
Marian:
Legionary Cohort - RTRPE
Legionary First Cohort - RTRPE
Veteran Cohort - Maraxus
Antesignani - Maraxus
Roman General - EB (Edited)
Models: 10
Units: 17
Republic of CarthageCarthage is always tough when it comes to their factional roster because most of their armies were comprised of mercenaries. Carthage also had it's fair share of reforms as well and I think that we should have them experience one reform. This reform should change their infantry from hoplites to infantry similar to the Romans. The reform could take place around the 2nd Punic War. Where exactly, I am not sure. Hopefully someone else knows or can research the answer. For right now I am going to list all possibilities of units, based from what I have seen from other mods. I will not include a Carthaginian Phalanx unit because I don't believe it existed.
Citizen Hoplites - Maraxus *Only in Carthage
Punic Thureophoroi - ?? *Only in Punic Settlements
Early Liby-Phoenician Hoplites - RTRPE *Only in Punic Settlements
Late Liby-Phoenician Hoplites - RTRPE Edited *Only in Punic Settlements
Sacred Band - Maraxus *Only in Carthage*
Punic Peltasts - RTRPE *Only in Punic Settlements
Citizen Cavalry - Maraxus *Only in Carthage or Only in Punic Settlements?
Sacred Band Cavalry - Maraxus *Only in Carthage
African Infantry - ?? *Reform Unit
Libyan Hoplites - ?? *AOR only in Africa
Libyan Infantry?? - ?? *AOR only in Africa
Libyan Javelinmen - RTRVII (Edited) *AOR only in Africa
Libyan Cavalry?? - ?? *AOR only in Africa
Carthaginian Elephants - Current
Carthaginian War Elephants - Current
Antigonid KingdomOkay the Diadochi rosters can get sort of confusing so I'll list all the units that I've read about, and seen in mods for Macedon. There will be a lot of phalangites, there are the Professional phalangites and there are regional phalangites. I believe a mixture of both were used in the Macedonian Battle line. I do not believe that the Macedonians ever used the Thureophoroi or Thorakitai Infantry. Instead they used 'Peltasts' which were equipped similarly to Thureophoroi and Hypaspists. There is a lot of cavalry as well, there are two units that I have question marks next to, because I wouldn't know where to put them!
Missile Troops
Slingers - RTRPE Edited *Only in Greece
Psiloi - Current Edited *Only in Greece
Archers - Current *Only in Greece
Peltasts - RTRPE *Only in Greece
Kestros Slingers - RTRPE
Paionian Skirmishers *AOR Paionia
Pezhetairoi
Deuteroi - Current Levy Pikemen Edited; *Only in Greece
Leukaspides - ?? Younger Core, main line troop
Chalkaspides - RTRPE Edited; Veteran Core, main line troop
Kleruchoi - Current Phalanx Pikemen; Settlers
Allied Phalangites - RTRPE Pezhetairoi; From Greece and other client states
Asthetairoi - Inigo; Elite
Infantry
Hoplites - Current Edited
Thureophoroi - RTRPE
Hypaspists - RTRPE
Agema Hypaspists - RTRPE
Cavalry
Hippakontistai - Current Militia cavalry edited; *Only in Greece
Prodromoi - ??
Sarissophoroi - RTRPE
Xystophoroi - ??
Hetairoi - RTRPE
Seleucid EmpireSame issue as with Macedon. There is some confusion with some units. The Seleucids will have a more unique army than Macedon because of where they are, but as far as factional troops, not much will differ as you can see. A few were taken away and a few were added. That's all that makes the Seleucid faction roster stand out.
Missile Troops
Native Slingers *AOR Asia
Native Skirmishers *AOR Asia
Native Archers *AOR Asia
Peltasts
Neocretan Archers *Reform Unit
Agrianian Peltasts *AOR ??
Macedonian Phalangites
Pantodapoi *AOR Asia
Chalkaspides - Bronze Shields
Chrysaspides - Gold Shields
Agyraspides - Silver Shields
Kleruchoi - Settlers
Allied Phalangites
Infantry
Hoplites
Hypaspists
Thureophoroi
Thorakitai
Cavalry
Hippakontistai *AOR Asia
Prodromoi
Xystophoroi
Lonchophoroi *AOR ??
Agema
Hetairoi
Hellenic Cataphracts
Other
Scythed Chariots
Camel Corps
Indian War Elephants
Armoured Indian War Elephants
Ptolemaic EmpireEgypt is similar to both the Seleucids and Macedonians but they have something that the others don't, the Machimoi. These were just the basic troops but they were used quite often, especially at Raphia. The Ptolemies are going to be the closest faction to Carthage in regards to troop diversity since they used many mercenaries, specifically Jews and Galatians through out their history. Those are AOR troops though and will be saved for another thread.
Missile Troops
Slingers *AOR Egypt
Skirmishers *AOR Egypt
Machimoi Archers *AOR Egypt
Peltasts
Neocretan Archers *Reform Unit
Pezoi
Machimoi Phalangites *AOR Egypt
Stratiotai
Kleruchoi
Kleruchoi Agema
Infantry
Machimoi Infantry *AOR Egypt
Carian Light Infantry
Thureophoroi
Machairaphoroi
Epilektoi
Basilikon Agema
Cavalry
Hippakontistai *AOR Egypt
Machimoi Cavalry *AOR Egypt
Katoikoi Cavalry
Prodromoi
Machairaphoroi Cavalry
Xystophoroi
Hetairoi
Other
African Elephants
Hellenic KingdomsThe Hellenic Kingdoms are a mix of troops from the different Kingdoms that were around in 280 BC. Most of the troop types will be similar to the Diadochi with exception to some elite troops. By AOR these units will be restricted to their native kingdoms so we won't have Bactrian Cataphracts in Epirus.
Missile Troops
Psiloi
Slingers
Archers
Peltasts
Native Slingers
Native Skirmishers
Native Archers
Phalangites
Deuteroi/Pantodopoi/Machimoi
Kleruchoi
Tarentine Leukaspides
Agema Phalangites
Infantry
Bactrian Hillmen
Hoplites
Thureophoroi
Thorakitai
Hypaspists
Chaeonian Agema
Bactrian Agema
Cavalry
Hippakontistai
Prodromoi
Hippeis
Bactrian Hippeis
Xystophoroi
Hetairoi
Bactrian Cataphracts
Bactrian Cataphract Horse Archers
Other
Indian Elephants
African Elephants
Syrian Elephants
Greek Cities & Greek StatesI have combined these two factions' rosters because they are super factions, meaning they consist of multiple smaller factions. We still need to discuss which faction gets what states but game wise both factions will be able to recruit any of these units if they hold the right settlements. I will break up the roster based on region that way it is more organized.
Common Troops available EverywhereMissile Troops
Slingers
Psiloi
Archers
Peltasts
Infantry
Ekdromoi
Hoplites
Thureophoroi
Cavalry
Prodromoi
Hippeis
SpartaMissile Troops
Helot Slingers
Helot Javelinmen
Helot Archers
Euzonoi *Reform Unit
Infantry
Krypteia
Neodamōdeis
Periokoi Hoplites
Skiritai
Spartiates
Spartan Pezoi *Reform Unit
Achaean LeagueNeocretan Ephebes
Epilektoi
Achaean Pezoi *Reform Unit
Thorakitai *Reform Unit
RhodesRhodian Slingers
Carian Warriors
Rhodian Hoplites
CreteCretan Slingers
Cretan Archers
Cretan Hoplites
SyracusePeltophoroi
Syracusan Hoplites
Syracusan Hippeis
Thorakitai *Reform Unit
AthensPeripoloi
Metoikoi Hoplites
Iphicratean Phalangites
Athenian Hoplites
Boetian LeagueBoetian Hoplites
Boetian Pezoi *Reform Unit
Bosporan KingdomTaurian Skirmishers
Bosporan Thureophoroi
Bosporan Hoplites
Sarmatian Cavalry *Reform Unit
MassaliaMassilian Archers
Massilian Hoplites
Thorakitai *Reform Unit
Ligurian Warriors
ThessalyAetolian LeagueAetolian Slingers
Aetolian Peltasts
Aetolian Hoplites
Aetolian Pezoi *Reform Unit
Aetolian Cavalry
PontusPontus from what I know is very diverse, and will probably end up having a large roster.
Missile Troops
Slingers
Skirmishers
Archers
Scythian Archers *AOR Scythia
Infantry
Pontic Spearmen
Hoplites
Oreioi
Pontic Pezoi *Reform Unit
Slave Phalangites *Reform Unit
Chalkaspides *Reform Unit
Imitation Legionaries *Reform Unit
Colchian Spearmen *AOR Colchis
Taurian Infantry *AOR Crimea
Cavalry
Hippakontistai
Armenian Heavy Cavalry
Cappadocian Noble Cavalry
Scythian Horse Archers *AOR Scythia
Sarmatian Horse Archers *AOR Sarmatia
ParthiaMissile Troops
Iranian Foot Archers
Iranian Slingers
Infantry
Iranian Infantry
Parthian Spearmen *Reform Unit
Cavalry
Iranian Horse Archers
Parthian Lesser Nobility
Parthian Heavy Cavalry
Royal Retainers *Bodyguard Unit