Israel/Palestine Murders 18 November

[Clockwork]

In Jerusalem portugaling Muslim bastards attacked my far flung Jewish brethren with axes and rifles while they were praying. Someone dare try and tell me now that Israelis aren't using measured force against them. Also the reason given for the attack was something to do with Orthodox Jews going to Temple Mount. portugal man, if they even knew anything about Judaism they'd know that we aren't even supposed to go there. Hell I could never go to anything other than the lowest reaches of it because I'm not ethnically Jewish.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/18/synagogue-murders-binyamin-netanyahu-despicable-murderers

[TTG4]

The acts those people committed were despicable, but the actions of a few are not the blame of everyone in a particular area. The Israeli forces don't seem to care about whether they bomb UN schools or cause huge amounts of civilian deaths in their pursuit of wiping out an insurgent group. Both sides have committed atrocities, but I disagree with your definition of measured force.

[Pentagathus]

The tensions regarding Temple Mount are because right wing Israeli groups have been advocating that jews should be allowed to pray within the confines of the Mosque there and this has been used by Palestinian terrorist groups to stir trouble despite the Israeli government's insistence that they are not going to change the current laws regarding this.

I'm still perfectly willing to say that Israel has and will almost certainly continue to use excessive force against Hamas and the Gaza Strip (although by the way neither one are directly involved in this incident.) The appropriate response to this would be to investigate the connections of these men to various groups, to attempt to persuade prominent Palestinians to denounce this sort of attack (which the Palestinian PM guy who's name I have entirely 100% forgotten has done btw) to generally tighten security (if its possible) and to appeal for calm. I believe the Israeli government has done all of this (well actually I have no idea about the last one but I hope so) but unfortunately its also decided to retaliate by destroying the perpetrators home's and increase their aggressive settlement of the West Bank which is blindingly stupid, unless of course they actually want to fuel tension.
Edit:
Eh think I got confused with the settlements and the resumption of destroying homes of perpetrators.

Also why did you feel the need to use the term "portugaling Muslims" and why do you describe the victims as your brethren?

[Clockwork]

@Penty, Because I'm Jewish.

Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries, Israel itself is tiny in comparison. If they didn't put on a regular display of how much better they are, they'd get attacks all the time and it would cost more lives and, unlikely as it may be, perpetual attacks may even wear them down to the point where they concede territory.

[Othko97]

The act of a handful of men is no justification for continuous shelling and airstrikes on an entire city. Yes, there is a terrorist group. No, killing civilians is not how to deal with said problem. Yes, making an example of a terrorist group to show what happens to those who commit terror act is justified. No, killing indiscriminately is not justified.

Also why did you feel the need to use the term "portugaling Muslims"

While I'll assume this is used as an adjective to describe the individual perpetrators and not the entire religion, I would kindly ask that in future such sentiments are made clearer and look less like you are blaming an entire group rather than some individuals belonging to a group. For example the addition of the word "some" may have helped a bit here, and also appending an "extremists" would make things clearer.

[Pentagathus]

Yeah that was the point I did not make by asking that question but should have done.

Israel is surrounded by Muslim countries, Israel itself is tiny in comparison. If they didn't put on a regular display of how much better they are, they'd get attacks all the time and it would cost more lives and, unlikely as it may be, perpetual attacks may even wear them down to the point where they concede territory.

This is the worst argument I have ever heard for Israel's use of military force. Jordan is very chummy with the US and nato, Egypt is not in any position to attack Israel and clearly neither is Lebanon or Syria. And even if this wasn't the case, bombing the portugal out of a largely civilian area is not a display of any serious military capability.

[Clockwork]

Nope, take it as me blaming the entire religion and the majority of the people in it.

If they only left Israel the hell alone there would be no need for it, Israel is defending itself. So yeah, I hope they continue to bomb the armadillo out of Hamas, drive arabs out of Jerusalem and generally continue defending us against the growing Islamic threat.

[Othko97]

I'm sorry, but the entire religion is not at fault for this, nor are the majority of people in it. The perpetrators of terrorism are extremists and do not represent the views or values of the religion. I'm afraid that anybody who thinks that violence is a direct result of Islam as a religion are mistaken, as the true cause is the few who take the teachings the wrong way. In fact, most of the things cited as reasons for terrorism are never mentioned in the Qu'ran itself, but in several surrounding texts. Yes, there are many problematic verses, but that is true of most holy books, seeing as they were written millennia ago. To reiterate: the religion is not at fault, the extremists are. While your statement might not be hate speech or racism per se, I still believe it to be prejudiced and discriminatory.

Secondly, why should Arabs be driven out of Jerusalem?
Thirdly, what growing Islamic threat?!

[Clockwork]

What Islamic threat? Serious? ISIL, Hamas, anywhere there is Islam as a majority religion there seems to be assholes blowing armadillo up, decapitating journalists or attacking a war weary Jewish state. You'd rather Israel lost the fight and we had another Islamic state? What the portugal? What the hell does everyone have against Jews?

[Othko97]

I don't see a "growing Islamic threat", I see several groups of extremists misled by false "prophets" who the rest of the religion have actually distanced themselves from.

You'd rather Israel lost the fight and we had another Islamic state? What the portugal? What the hell does everyone have against Jews?

I would rather Israel stay in stability. However your argument here is a strawman. I asked "what growing Islamic threat?" and now apparently I am anti-semitic‽ I fail to see the connecting logic here. I think that Israel is justified to use force against the groups who actually attacked them, but flattening an entire city and killing innocent civilians? Nope.

[Clockwork]

You're blind to it then. You don't see how much worse each of these groups have become year on year? Whatever.

How can Israel stay in stability, whatever that means, when they are constantly threatened by Muslims? How do you not see that *everywhere* it's the portugaling Muslims causing trouble. Is there fighting between christians and jews? Nope. Janes and Buddhists? Nope. Taoists and Confucians? No. It's all of these people against the portugaling Muslims because they are the single largest portugaling problem we have in the 21st century.

[Pentagathus]

You're blind to it then. You don't see how much worse each of these groups have become year on year? Whatever.

How can Israel stay in stability, whatever that means, when they are constantly threatened by Muslims? How do you not see that *everywhere* it's the portugaling Muslims causing trouble. Is there fighting between christians and jews? Nope. Janes and Buddhists? Nope. Taoists and Confucians? No. It's all of these people against the portugaling Muslims because they are the single largest portugaling problem we have in the 21st century.

Who is we in this context?

Are you under the impression that Islam is only a majority religion within the middle east? Because malaysia, indonesia, guinea, brunei...
I'm presuming you were implying hyperbole but if you think there are no ethnic or religious conflicts not involving muslims today then you're either a complete and utter moron or you're being seriously obtuse.

[Clockwork]

You're blind to it then. You don't see how much worse each of these groups have become year on year? Whatever.

How can Israel stay in stability, whatever that means, when they are constantly threatened by Muslims? How do you not see that *everywhere* it's the portugaling Muslims causing trouble. Is there fighting between christians and jews? Nope. Janes and Buddhists? Nope. Taoists and Confucians? No. It's all of these people against the portugaling Muslims because they are the single largest portugaling problem we have in the 21st century.

Who is we in this context?

Are you under the impression that Islam is only a majority religion within the middle east? Because malaysia, indonesia, guinea, brunei...
I'm presuming you were implying hyperbole but if you think there are no ethnic or religious conflicts not involving muslims today then you're either a complete and utter moron or you're being seriously obtuse.

It can be whoever doesn't see it. Nobody in particular. No what I'm saying is that each of those religions have fought in bloody conflict with them and still do. Other ethnic and religious conflicts go on, sure. Africa is a prime example of an entire continent divided by tons of tiny (and not so) conflicts arising from different ethnicity etc. However, more conflicts arise, more bloody conflicts and more zealots from Muslims. There are just too many reasons to hate the extremists and I'm portugaling tired of trying to differentiate between the peaceful ones and the violent ones. Usually it's too damn late before you know which ones are nice and which are going to go portugaling apearmadillo and cut someones damn head off So, yeah, portugal them all.

[Pentagathus]

Well thats pathetic. Unfortunately for you Muslims make up at least 20% of the world's population so portugaling them all may be rather difficult.

[Othko97]

So wait, you're saying that because of the action of perhaps a few thousand people, you are going to instantly hate billions? Can you not instantly see what is wrong with that statement?