Author Topic: Europe, the UK, and the World  (Read 1690 times)

Jubal

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Europe, the UK, and the World
« on: May 19, 2013, 05:07:26 PM »
This is kind of a British-centric topic I know but it's sufficiently international that Obama felt the need to wade in on it recently so there we go.

Basically about 45% of British voters would vote to leave the European Union if they had a referendum on it. 36% want to stay, the rest presumably undecided. Now, the EU is one of the world's most powerful trading blocs, and British business might suffer if it leaves. Additionally, it would give the UK less of a say in the functioning of its biggest, closest and most important export markets, as well as in the foreign policy of its actual neighbours.

On the other hand, the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget (I won't go into estimates as the figures vary from those on the right ignoring half the stuff we get back whereas pro-Europeanists tack on all of them plus generous estimates of trade revenue).So as long as you don't think UK trade will suffer a lot by leaving the EU it might save Britain some money, and would furthermore mean we don't have to be bound by some of the really, really dumb regulations the European Commission likes imposing. These have included banana straightness in the past, and most recently a ban on refillable olive oil bottles in restaurants to stop restaurants giving out other plant oils instead of olive. Which is pretty much the dumbest thing ever, unless you're a desperate Spanish or Italian politician who needs to try and boost their olive oil exports, which is of course why it's happened.

This has become a really live political issue again; it was partly responsible for shredding the last Conservative government, and the Prime Minister is looking extremely shaky at the moment on the same issue that haunted his predecessor. UKIP, a previously marginal anti-European party, made huge gains at Conservative expense in the local elections recently, and there are a lot of very obvious arguments going on between relatively right-wing "Eurosceptics" who form a lot of the Conservative base of support and their activists, and the "Europhiles", modernisers like the Prime Minister and a lot of the front bench who feel they have to appeal to the centre ground and keep the trade benefits of being in Europe. Labour in opposition and the Liberal Democrats who are the government's coalition partners are keeping pretty shtum at the moment - both probably delighted that their main electoral enemies are ripping themselves to bits.

Which is why we're getting news like this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22586142
Political wisdom fact #1: if you need to go on TV to say something about party discipline or disagreements, there's a damn good chance it ain't true.

Thoughts, folks?
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Clockwork

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Re: Europe, the UK, and the World
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 08:07:34 PM »
Well as a UKIP voter I'm pretty pleased with the support that the party is getting. The conservatives are in for a shaky time at best, the general opinion is that the conservatives are on a downhill slope at the minute even among conservative supporters. I reckon if they don't do something remarkable within the next 2 years, the general election is as good as lost for them.

Labour is becoming (relatively) more popular having overtaken the conservative party in the polls and Lib Dems are falling in popularity, which is lower than UKIP's. It is hard to say however if Conservative voters are merely declaring that they're fed up with current Tory politics or if they actually want UKIP to do well. UKIP would be the target of protest votes from dissatisfied Conservative voters. So obviously this doesn't necessarily represent how the balance of power has shifted.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 08:12:05 PM by luckynumber13 »
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Jubal

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Re: Europe, the UK, and the World
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 01:08:31 AM »
Yeah... I have to admit I'm not that unhappy either. It worries me how badly the Lib Dems are doing but more importantly how much contempt "Liberalism" is getting in Labour quarters (I'm a leftwinger by deep conviction, but leftism without Liberalism is, for me, ultimately somewhat meaningless as redistributing material goods but centralising power often ends as just either a vast and sprawling bureaucracy, a police state or a bread and circuses state). On the other hand, I have long felt it was high time for the Tories to split in two, the Conservatives in areas like Norfolk where I live I have long known had nothing in common with the Eton-squad front bench and didn't want to have. So in that sense I'm glad for the sake of democracy that someone is representing something that roughly equates to their views, even if those views are something I disagree with strongly it's in some ways better than ending up with continual governance by oligarchs.
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