Russia in the Middle East

[Glaurung]

Putin is the only political player with backbone. He might actually back up kicking the bejesus out of people.

Well, he's evidently happy to conduct bombing raids to assist his friend Assad. After the Soviet experience in Afghanistan, I suspect he'll be much more reluctant to commit ground forces in Syria. Nor, I suspect, is he interested in the long-term commitment to nation-building, whose necessity is demonstrated by the last 12 years' unhappy history, and in which the continued presence of Assad would be a major obstacle.

[comrade_general]

I don't keep up on everything Putin says, but to date I don't think I've ever heard him say anything that didn't make sense. Can't say that about any of our politicians

Syria is different from Afghanistan. We were supporting the Mujahideen (some thanks we got from that) much like CCCP supported Vietnam et al. In Syria we are both against ISIS.

[Clockwork]

Russia is fighting ISIS in Syria, same as Assad, but it's suspicious that they're allies in that? It's not like they're exchanging xmas cards they're killing terrorists.

[Glaurung]

Putin is backing Assad exclusively, as far as I know. IS are presumably the principal target, but I suspect that they are not the only one. I expect that "we" (the West / NATO etc.) would probably prefer to back only the more moderate rebels, who are fighting against both Assad and IS, but we'll almost certainly have to accept Assad anyway as the only hope of returning Syria to some sort of stability.

[comrade_general]

Leave Assad there. If removed someone would need to stay there for many years otherwise ISIS takes control. We learned that with Iraq. W warned that it would happen:

[Pentagathus]

 ^-^Have seen some highly humorous memes about this, will try to post them at some point.
Otherwise I'm pretty meh about the whole thing, we didn't do enough (ie we did portugal all) to aid moderate rebels in removing Assad when it co ave helped avoid destabilising the region, I really doubt we're going to risk conflict with Russia now to get rid of him.

[Clockwork]

https://www.facebook.com/PakaluPapitoOfficial/photos/a.1445443269100042.1073741828.1435342963443406/1548350015476033/?type=3

[comrade_general]

That is the gist of it.

[Jubal]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/belgian-physicists-calculate-that-everyone-is-lying-about-the-downed-russian-jet?utm_source=vicenewsfb

And in news that should probably be a surprise to nobody, it looks like neither side is actually telling the truth about the jet incident.

[comrade_general]

Belgians? Aren't they always high on waffles or something?

[Jubal]

I will admit to not having checked their numbers - but yes, Belgium is good at waffles and chocolate. And if recent events are a guide, less so at anti-terrorism policing...