Expanding Rome: Total War

[ahowl11]

Over the past weeks I have been doing a lot of thinking. I have had many mod ideas, only one has actually made progress in HRTW. However there is still something missing for me when it comes to this great game. Ever since I came into the modding world I have seen many mods. I like many of the features and concepts that they offer, but as a whole I never really fell in love with any. Instead I would rather play a vanilla campaign. I also see unit packs, and believe me they are great, but in my mind it makes the factions unbalanced. So here is my proposition, and I'm willing to commit and stick to it if I can possibly get some aid from you guys here at Exilian: (P.S. I have many personal preferences that may make me seem picky, but I have trouble settling for things I don't like) (P.S.S. I'm horrible with tutorials, I need somebody hands on that can help as i get to frustrated easily with tutorials)

MAP

Spoiler

This is of moderate difficulty for myself.
One of the major criticisms of vanilla RTW was the fact that the map was cut off at certain areas. Because of this, the Seleucid Empire and Parthia were misrepresented in their starting locations. Also Scotland, Scandinavia and Arabia were not represented very well.
So I would like to use the Mundus Magnus Map for this mod. However, I want my own version of the map, I have already received a Mundus Magnus map that contains the city of Rome alone. I'm wanting to add cities that are historically relevant to the time period and of each faction to make the mod unique and interesting. How hard is it to add cities? If someone could show me it would be greatly appreciated.

Senate/Roman Factions

Spoiler

This is fairly easy for me.
Another issue with RTW was the fact that there were four Roman factions instead of just one. I have never liked that about the game. I do like the Senate missions and offices though. The problem is, if you want the Brutii and Scipii to be different factions such as a greek or barbarian faction, they will still receive senate missions etc. So I will be implementing makanyanes' 'Neutralised Senate' mod. This internally renames the senate faction to 'slavs' and permanently deletes the Senate tab, and the Senate offices scroll. Simply put, it de-bugs the Senate faction and makes them like any other faction.
so I will be keeping one Roman faction (Julii) and the other three can be used for new factions. What those factions will be? I'm not sure yet.

Units/Recruitment

Spoiler

Easy for me to implement units, impossible to make the units
One thing that frustrates me about vanilla RTW, is the fact that some factions have a good selection of units while others have a poor selection. The Romans, Egyptians, and Seleucids have a great amount of units to choose from and make their armies diverse, but Thrace, Scythia, and Numidia have a basic, generalized selection that ultimately makes them weaker factions. Not only do I want to expand and edit each factions' unit roster but I want an AOR system. This AOR system will not be complicated at all. Take "Illyrian Skirmishers" for example. The unit will be available to each faction but only if the faction owns the right regions. So with Illyrian Skirmishers, the faction would have to own a region that was historically of Illyrian origin. This makes it simple as there will not have to be an addition of a new building but just some simple editing with the unit. I will need some basic help with this, as I don't necessarily know what to do in the text files and what text files I need to edit. I hear there is a limit of sixty-four for AOR regions? Is this true, or are there possible ways around it?
When it comes to the actual units, some modelling will be necessary. This, I have no way of doing. First I do not have 3ds max or anything of the sort, second I do not have time to learn the program and make units as it is. So I am hoping someone can volunteer to make a unit, or Unit Cards every now and then.
There will be a lot of reskinning. Vanilla units for the most part are staying, and in past projects I have had most of them reskinned. However, I will probably be porting many units, not only from BI and ALX but also from the many mods that feature vanilla type units.
Here is a more defined list:
Extended Greek Mod
Extended Cultures
Diadochi Total War
310 B.C.
The Hellenic States
Persian Invasion
Amazon Total War
Rise of Empire
Macedon Expansion
Other Mini-Mods/Unit Packs

Now just because i will be porting units from these mods does not mean that they will be exactly how they were in those mods. More than likely I will be needing them reskinned for the factions they will be a part of. Here is an example:

This mod will keep the vanilla feature of units being different colors, such as Romans being red/balck, Egypt Gold/Black, and Gaul Green Red. Also mercenaries are green and rebels grey. AOR units will be grey as well, same as the rebel units. So one unit that will have to be edited is a unit from Extended Greek Mod, "Georgian Swordsmen". They have a texture that doesn't fit any specific faction colors. That unit will need to have rebel colors. Now, the problem is that I have virtually no clue on how to "efficiently" reskin and texture units. I have GIMP and it really confuses me. If someone could walk me through how to retexture a unit with GIMP (this means everything from tools to use, to how to save it correctly and everything in between) I like how comrade_general does his units, I don't know how, but his units look like they were in the original Rome: Total War game. THAT'S what I need these units to look like.

Factions

Spoiler

Factions will not be changed too much. Creative Assembly did a good job in their faction selection (apart from the Roman factions) so the only thing here is editing each faction to make it so they are more unique and different from each other, and choosing three factions that will replace the old roman ones. Some examples are faction symbols, family trees, temples and other miscellaneous stuff. Also I believe that each faction should have their name represented better. Instead of "Carthage" it should be "The Republic of Carthage". "Macedon" should be "The Antigonid Kingdom". Also factions named Spain, Egypt, or Scythia are misrepresented.

Combining Historical Accuracy with Gameplay

Spoiler

This subject is the source of many debates. Many people are history fanatics and want EVERY DETAIL of the mod to be historically accurate, while others want fun gameplay. These two views for a mod conflict, but it is possible to combine them. For example, Britons did not have access to Archers, so adding Archer Warband to Britons would not be historically accurate. However, having extreme government, economic, and recruitment systems may be accurate but make it insanely boring for the people who just want to play. In this mod I am going to keep it simple and vanilla.
There will be certain gameplay mods that I will include. Certain Animation mods, will be included along with the wooden walls featured in Diadochi Total War. I would like to also get the campaign textures that Diadochi Total War used. However I will not be implementin RS2 environments. It's not vanilla at all and slows down the game. The vanilla environments in my mind are not that bad. Also I will include the better AI mod and formations mod. There are many mini mods as well that I will look to include.
The Game will start in 280 BC, because I just feel like that is the perfect date. Also, a four turn per year script would be nice.

If I come up with any other ideas I will post them here. Like I said before, I fully intend to complete this mod unlike the others I have proposed. There are some questions that will come up, for example Thrace, whether they should be a hellenic kingdom or barbarian people.
I do not want a large team, but would love if two-three people could help me.
I need someone who can create models and UI's, and I need someone who does well with art and textures.
I would like to learn 2d art on my own but I feel as if that is not my cup of tea. I rather get better with text editing.

If anyone would like to join the cause or help out with expanding Rome Total War, let me know right away and we can get started. I am wanting to go one faction at a time, starting with The Roman Republic.

There are three faction slots open. Here are the factions that could use the slots.

Spoiler

The Kingdom of Epirus - can easily be made with comrade_general's THS mod
Illyrians - tougher to make but can be done
The Bosporan Kingdom - pretty much complete from an old version of HRTW
Bactria - can be ported from Extended Greek Mod, Extended Cultures and Diadochi Total War
Mauryan Empire - ALX's Indian faction would be used
Lysimachean Empire - Would definitely spice up the situation in Macedon in 280 BC (ask me for details)
Galatians - same as above
Bithynia - very interesting faction, too hard to make?
Celt-Iberians - also very interesting faction
Cappadocia - too little info
Atropatene - same as above
Pergamum - same as Bithynia but easier to make
Aetolian League/Achaean League - don't believe they should be in this mod
Sparta - would be a good choice and fun to play as, but worth it?

That's all for now. I hope I have explained myself as best as I can. If anyone wants to be a part of it let me know.

[Jubal]

Adding settlements and provinces to a map isn't too difficult (given I'm really, really cack-handed with image programs and I can do it, at least). I suspect there's a tutorial on TWC somewhere if you dig around, if not I'll write a quick one for you.

[comrade_general]

Didn't I lay out my process for that somewhere? I can dig that up again...

[ahowl11]

If you guys could help me, it would be amazing. I might have some time to add a few cities to Italy this weekend if I can understand your tutorials. Being busy in real life really makes it difficult to mod.

[Son of the King]

There is a tutorial for new regions here.

[comrade_general]

Huzzah for SubRosa.  8)

[ahowl11]

Thank you for the tutorial, SubRosa explains herself well. However I'm having an issue with installing the empty mundus magnus map. Could some one message me their email and I can send the map to them and they can explain what I need to do to get it working? I cannot upload files because all file sharing sites are blocked by my school.

[comrade_general]

Do you have -show_err enabled? Is it spitting any error messages out?

[ahowl11]

Yes, I have -show_err enabled and it's a CTD without any error messages whenever I try to play a campaign. The only factions are Egypt, Seleucids, Gauls, and Rebels. Each owning just one city. Only four cities on the map, as I checked the map_regions file. I do not know what could cause the CTD except when I open the radar map files nothing shows. comrade_general, I will send you an email of the files because my school does not permit me to use file sharing sites. Sorry for taking so long to respond

[comrade_general]

I'll take a look at it this weekend.

[comrade_general]

I have sent the repaired file structure back to you. All I had to do was change some of the directories in descr_sm_resources; they were trying to look in a mod folder called "HELLENISTIC" so I changed them to "NMM". Then there were no textures in the models_strat folder so I added them in as well. Lastly I deleted map.rwm and everything worked fine. I suggest you start your mod folder only with the files I just sent you, and then add in other stuff to it gradually (i.e. don't copy these files into a mod folder you might already be using). And if you change the name of your mod folder then you'll need to change those directories in descr_sm_resources again.

[ahowl11]

Thank you very much, it works! I am probably going to start adding regions to the map. Hopefully I can follow the tutorial correctly. I will start with Italy. Before I start there are a few things to mention:

1. Should I start adding regions first? Or should I focus on the structure of each faction? Meaning the culture, military units, etc.

2. There are 3 faction slots available for new factions. I'm thinking of having Epirus, because of Pyrrhus and the impact he had at the time, Illyria, as they are a unique culture that I believe should have been included in the RTW game. I would like to add Sparta since they had a Renaissance period around this time but I won't because they were not very powerful. Same can be said for Aetolian and Achaean Leagues. I believe the Greek Cities faction does a well enough job simulating the various Greek factions. Also, Pergamum would be interesting but still, another Greek faction? I have been interested in the Bosporans being in the mod but again, they are Greek, even though they have Scythian ties and would make the game more interesting in the north. Same could be said about Bactria, a nomadic, greek, and persian faction. So what about the Mauryan Empire? It would be easy to just port the Indian faction from ALX, but there are no "quality" indian portraits, I would use the eastern portraits and their buildings would have to be eastern as well which I don't think resembles them very accurately. Well, what about the Nabataeans? They were just nomadic herders around this time, so it would not e very relevant to add them, but so were the Numidians right? Plus Arabia will need some sort of action.

3. Building off point #2 is this: are the factions in vanilla RTW accurate? I mean, what should Thrace resemble? The Lysimachean Greeks or the Odrysian barbarians? Are the Dacians or Britons needed? What about Spain and Scythia? Spain could be Iberia but who are they resembling? All Iberians or a specific tribe such as the Luistani? Should they Scythians stay as Scythia or should they be changed to Sarmatians? Or could we have both factions? There are so many options!

Here is what I have for set factions:

Spoiler

1. Rome
2. Carthage
3. Macedon
4. Seleucids
5. Ptolemies (formerly Egypt)
6. Pontus
7. Armenia
8. Parthia
These factions are for the most part fine. They will all be altered but as far as being a faction? They are in for sure.

Now it gets interesting:
9. Gauls
10. Germans
11. Britons

Problem with these factions is that they were never unified in reality but they have to be due to hard coding. With that being said I am probably going to set it up so some settlements go to the factions with the others going to the rebels that way it can simulate the disunity in a simple fashion, and so that these three factions don't start fighting each other until later in the game.

12. Iberians (formerly Spain)
13. Sarmatians (formerly Scythia)

These two factions are similar to the factions above but will not be AS divided. The Sarmatians will start off near the Caspian Sea as the Scythians were still around the Black Sea (cause to maybe keep Scythia as a faction). The Iberians will be centered around the Luistani tribe but will own some other settlements as well. The Celt-Iberians (another worthy cause for a faction) will probably be rebels but strong. They will provide the Iberians with some challenges.

14. Dacians
15. Thrace

Dacians could be a bubble faction due to the fact that well, there is not much about them. However I believe that I can make them into a stronger faction and really emphasize the falx for their unique units. Plus they have an interesting starting position. For Thrace it is tough because of the Greek and Barbarian influences. I will stick with the vanilla idea of them being a Greek culture but having very unique units that blends the Greeks and Thracians together.

16. Greek Cities

Will probably be the toughest faction to give settlements to. Sparta, Athens, Rhodes, Syracuse, and maybe a few minor cities will probably make the cut. Pergamum will go to Rebels as Pergamum was a Hellenistic Kingdom. Also this faction will not be representing the Achaean or Aetolian Leagues as they are being represented by Rebels as well.

17. Numidia

The main and ultimate reason why the Numidians will be included is the fact that they can check Carthaginian power, and they can ultimately become powerful themselves. If you think about it, with an AOR system Numidia can be just as powerful as Carthage.

Now for new factions!

18. Illyrians

I think they are a must. I'm looking for them to have a strong navy and will add another barbarian faction. They will have some Greek elements as well. Playing as them will be a challenge because they have the Dacians to the north, Greeks to the south and Romans to the west. I'm hoping though that they do not get crushed when being controlled by the AI.

19. Bosporans

Almost didn't include them, but I did for a few reasons. First, I believe the North black sea area needs some more settlements and action and having them all owned by rebels would be pretty pointless. Second the Bosporans could accurately represent the Scythians once they get a hold of certain settlements. Third, the Sarmatians need competition and a reason for people to play as them or against them. The Bosporans make that possible. They will be similar to Thrace but I will make it so they are unique in their own way.

20. Nabataeans

First, why I didn't choose the following factions.
Epirus: Yes people like Epirus but other than Ambracia what do they own? I could give Southern Italy to them but still I feel like they could be defeated easily. I'm not making this game historically accurate at game start so there would not be Pyrrhus of Epirus with a huge army in Italy. Plus the Greeks can be represented by the Greek faction and Rebels in Italy.

Mauryans: Remember one of the reasons I started this mod? It was to give the Seleucids the rest of the territory they owned. If I included the Mauryans then I would have to add the Indian sub continent for the rest of their empire. Not happening. Plus they are a different culture which makes my decision easier.

Bactria: How similar would this mod be to RTR if I included them? What about XGM? Enough said, they can be easily represented by Rebels and they would be on the same level as Pergamum.

So, why Nabataeans?

First, I cannot let all of Arabia be owned by the Rebels, it would just be strange. Second, people like the idea of the Nabataeans. Third, even though they were not really a force at game start, neither were the Numidians. Fourth, they can check Ptolemaic and Seleucid power. Enough said. They will be an extremely tough faction to play as but Petra will be a great city to start with.

4. Can someone make a radar map that is similar to the RTW vanilla one but fits the Mundus Magnus Map that I have? By similar I mean the texture like the geographical texture instead of political regions like what Mundus Magnus has.

[comrade_general]

1. This is totally up to you, but I'd recommend doing a bit of each in blocks, because one or the other will become tedious very quickly if you don't mix it up.

2-3. You ask some good questions there, these we've been asking ourselves for the last 8 years.  But it seems you have your faction list all set to go then, and I say it looks good so just roll with it. 

4. I'm pretty stocked up on stuff to do right now. I think skull might be doing something like this at TWC?

[Phoenixguard09]

Might I suggest Ahowl that you combine Britons, Gauls and Celt-iberians into a big conglomeration under Celts? That way you could have Galatians as well and you would free up a faction slot to put in, say, Epirus. To curb their power you could have them very strung out, with only a few settlements actually under their control while the rest of their lands would be Rebel-controlled. In addition I'd take it as a personal favour if you included some Goidelic units.

Anyway, this is looking pretty interesting and I wish you the best.

[ahowl11]

@comrade_general, skull is doing the opposite of what I want. He is creating a region based radar map for RTW vanilla. I'm wanting a geographically based radar map for Mundus Magnus. I'm sure I can find someone who can do it though.

@Phoenix, you have a good proposition but I couldn't do the Celtic faction, it just doesn't go with my idea. For the units? I'll think about it ;P