Author Topic: Belief  (Read 11039 times)

Pentagathus

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Re: Belief
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2016, 05:20:59 PM »
Yeah I would like to believe in some form of God or spirituality or anything that gives a point to life. Unfortunately I can't just make myself believe.

Glaurung

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Re: Belief
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2016, 11:07:12 PM »
Religious belief first: I don't have any, to put it bluntly.
I was brought up in a rather woolly Christian way, and as a child I guess I was a Christian by default. Very early in my teens, I must have started thinking about religion, because I'm fairly sure that I concluded I had no evidence for the existence of God (but no evidence for the definite non-existence of God either), and therefore described myself as agnostic. This was enough for me not to be confirmed - I can't remember now whether that came as active refusal, or more indirectly through not taking any action to make it happen. Rather more recently, I've shifted again, to definite atheism: quite suddenly it became obvious that I could not reconcile the state of the world, with all its suffering and pain, with the existence of the Christian God, omnipotent and loving. If there is a deity, it is either omnipotent but not loving, or else loving but not omnipotent. In theology, this is described as the "problem of pain" or "problem of evil"; it seems to be one that theologians have struggled with for centuries.

So, on to a purpose in life, or a point to life. For me, it's quite simple: trying to make the world a better place. This seems to happen in little bits, as I see helpful things I can do for other people, and I go and do them.

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Re: Belief
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2016, 11:19:49 PM »
It's all fairy tales and superstition.

Clockwork

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Re: Belief
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2016, 12:35:15 AM »
Nice response G, and Penty though you seem to align with my own. Cg... Yeah I know...I wish I didn't but yeah, I know ;)


This is going to be portugaling morbid. Feel free to ignore the hell out of this penty, I wouldn't blame you, I'd probably do the same.


Penty, I'm curious as to if you'd like to believe in God purely because you think that it gives life meaning or if, more like myself that it gives death meaning? I ask not to pry but because it's something I've been really struggling with as suicide feels right around the corner for me about now. As some of the members here will attest (G and cg in particular but others who've looked at various things I've posted), I've been hugely unhappy for a long time, I've got mental illness in some sort of form though classifying it is difficult which is fine by me as I don't like 'boxes' anyway. I really started to look at belief when I got the feeling that these will be my last weeks and I'm frankly terrified of death. Which is why I've changed my stance from 'atheist' to 'I goddamn hope there's a god'.


Not trying to provoke anything here because I know both belief and non-belief is very much personal but I have a question for you G, if you'll permit (and of course you can say no).


Why does a God have to be anything more than one who set everything in motion? And I'd really love it if you could expand on both your personal reason why God has to be either unloving or omnipotent and why 'he' isn't both anyway. Explanation: From what you've written I take it that you see God as *having* to be involved with day to day or even century to century life. In contrast: my personal belief is that God, if there is such a being, lets everything unravel at whatever pace it happens at and that 'he' is playing an impossibly long game where humankind is on course for something we at our current level of knowledge can't imagine yet. Whether that be 'true' immortality, 'true' peace or something else we don't have a name for.


As for my other thing - Loving someone or something takes so many forms wouldn't you agree? Paraphrasing here from quotes I've heard in the mists of time somewhere: to love something you have to set it free; you have to make it your own; you have to give it everything you have; you have to let it make it's own way.... You get my point, it's all pretty contradictory what love means. And to get overly personal, I've had one experience I'd call love and that was between myself and someone who didn't care for anything or anyone Love and omnipotence doesn't necessarily mean doing everything to help them, as far as I can see, though you can argue otherwise of course.


As an aside: this is a subject I am hugely open to discourse (unlike a lot of political stuff (for instance), despite my best efforts: I really do try to look at it from every angle but I'm jaded by my experience and whathaveyou, I know). Probably because I have no real opinions on the matter, the only being: I'd *love* to have full confidence in a God having a master plan for us but I don't quite believe it yet.


This was a really lengthy post, much more than I meant it. I'll stop for now but I'd love it if at least someone would continue this discussion :)
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comrade_general

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Re: Belief
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2016, 01:47:39 AM »
No suicides, C. I forbid it.

Clockwork

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Re: Belief
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2016, 01:53:38 AM »
Fair. No plural, just the one ;)


Jokes aside. I'm still fairly stable, don't worry :)
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Re: Belief
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2016, 08:01:43 AM »
as stable as a horse, right?
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Pentagathus

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Re: Belief
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2016, 07:36:25 AM »
Good question, I haven't really thought about it. I think it's life, death just seems like nothing but and end to me, which I don't think I find particularly worrying. I mean I guess it would be nice to have some sort of afterlife/the chance to see lost loved ones again but the idea of just ceasing to exist doesn't seem too bad. My problem in that this then makes life inherently pointless, which sometimes does bother me. I think it just depends on my current mood as to how much it bothers me. I generally just don't think about it though, because it's not particularly cheery.
I've found Jean Paul Sartre's writings on philosophy feel very relatable for me, although I haven't read that much of it because it's a bit bleak. As far as religions go, from what I know of it, Sikhism is probably the only organised religion I could get behind, although tbh I'm not really sure on how Sikhs view God. Sometimes it seems like a form of spiritualism rather than the "traditional" (or my idea of what's traditional) sense of a deity, but I don't think Sikhs see it that way.

Oh and also please don't suicide, I hear it's very bad for your health.