Author Topic: Woolwich Attack  (Read 9275 times)

Clockwork

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Othko97

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 09:29:03 PM »
That's just not right...

His justification "In our country we see this every day". HOW DOES THAT MAKE IT OKAY OVER HERE?! Surely if you had seen stuff like this you WOULDN'T do it in a country where it doesn't happen? He doesn't even make sense...
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Mars

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 09:51:33 PM »
I just don't get why they thought it was such a good idea to go ahead and do what they did.
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Pentagathus

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 10:04:46 PM »
Well that's portugaled up.

Gen_Glory

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 10:37:37 PM »
his country... sounds like a fairly thick london accent to me
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Clockwork

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 10:47:32 PM »
What makes it even worse is that this happens all over Europe and they're(extremists) proud of this, it's televised in 'their country'. It doesn't take half a minute to find a youtube vid of a fairly substantial group of Muslims in the middle of London preaching that the UK should accept Shari' ah and everyone who doesn't should be removed. Why we let these people stay, I'll never know. There is a difference between equality and fairness.
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Gen_Glory

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 10:54:26 PM »
freedom of speech doesn't mean we have to listen to them
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Pentagathus

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 11:01:55 PM »
Ninjad  >:(
Because if they aren't preaching hate or advocating violence then they're no danger and everyone is entitled to their views and, to a certain degree, freedom of speech. The vast majority of muslims aren't radical, and the majority of radical muslims aren't violent nutjobs (unless of course you define a radical muslim as a violent nutjob.)

Clockwork

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 11:07:54 PM »
Preaching Shari' ah IS preaching violence and hatred. Being a member of other religions are punishable, any woman without hijab is punished violently. It's not okay to give them freedom of speech in this. I have absolutely no problem with any religion(for the vast majority), even though I don't understand them and I won't pretend to understand them, I'm not blaming it on them being Islamic, but because these people are hatefully violent towards anyone that disagrees with them.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:24:28 PM by Rob »
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Pentagathus

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 11:20:37 PM »
If the majority of the UK were to accept Sharia that would be fair enough since that's how democracy works, but very few UK citizens will support that regardless of the number of muslims preaching at them. If however those muslims were preaching that the UK must be forced to accept Sharia law against their will, then as far as I'm concerned they will be abusing their right to free speech.

Clockwork

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 11:24:17 PM »
Maybe I didn't make that clear, but that's exactly what is happening. There are preachers inciting Muslim gangs to enforce Shari' ah law in some places in the UK. They've attacked mainly prostitutes, though can't for the life of me remember the places mentioned. I think I found this from a channel called RT but not 100% sure.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 12:39:32 AM by Rob »
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Jubal

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 12:43:36 AM »
I feel I should step in at this point with a note about Sharia law. Sharia is, as everyone knows, Islamic law. That does not mean all forms and interpretations of Sharia are the same, it's become very much a hate word for many anti-fundamentalists in the west as a result of extreme practices that are part of it in some aggressive readings and interpretations. I'm not denying that I really, really don't want extensions of Islamic law further into the public sphere, as for me law is and should be fundamentally a civil, secular form of jurisdiction. Nevertheless, throwing the term Sharia around like evil confetti isn't particularly accurate, as pretty much all Muslims would claim to be following sharia; the difference between extremists and radically liberal groups like Imaan (the UK's Muslim LGBT movement) is essentially based upon interpretation.

So, my thoughts, in no real order.

-> Yes, fundamentalist Islam is still a big problem, that should have been obvious really.
-> "Letting people stay" is not the issue as a large number of radicalised people are British. That disgusting video, with the guy with blood on his hands. He has a London accent. These people are often not first generation immigrants and quite a lot aren't even from Islamic family backgrounds (it's a general rule of religion that new converts tend to have twice the zeal of those who've just been passive brought up with a religion). We can't just kick them out, they have nowhere to be kicked to; they're our problem.
-> So what do we need to do? Firstly, target leadership structures and preaching, secondly, start putting out positive counter-messages. The worldwide fight against religious extremism may be partly fought with guns, but it can only be won with books (or, more likely, YouTube videos). A lot of Islamic terrorists are not evil genii; they're young lads who get a bunch of armadilloe poured into their head about all the things suffered by the Islamic world and how noble it is to fight etc etc - a lot of them are really probably a bit dim, and it's this "human resources" pool for terrorism that we need to make dry up. We can do that firstly by counter-arguing more effectively (because a lot of what these people are being fed is straight up lies), and secondly by discrediting the nutters who spout it to begin with.
-> What do we not need to do? Hold a fracking COBRA meeting and act as panicked as possible. This is political points-scoring and Cameron trying to look Prime Ministerial and in control. If we panic the whole country and hold top level emergency security meetings for a single murder, how effective are we claiming terrorism is and how much are we encouraging copycat attacks? There is absolutely nothing Cameron can do to make this situation better. Yes, it's a serious incident, yes, it deserves a serious and measured response, preferably a private visit to the family involved. This panic strategy is just a piece of showmanship by a scared Prime Minister with a fragile grip on his party.
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Mars

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 12:52:07 AM »
Maybe it might be worth separating the posts related to this news story from this thread and move them into a thread dedicated to the topic?
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Jubal

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 12:59:19 AM »
Ta-da  :)
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Clockwork

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Re: Woolwich Attack
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 01:21:17 AM »
Little bit off topic on the off topic news thread but...Doesn't it worry anyone we have a bunch of military guys in an organization called COBRA, anyone watch G.I JOE?
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