Discussion: Gutting the Vanilla Unit Roster

[ahowl11]

Yes, I agree, I need to change them to Pezhetairoi

What is the difference between Hippeis, Prodromoi, and the unit that begins with Hippo (javelin cavalry)?

Yes the Barbarian Prefix will be removed.

Berserkers shall stay

[Bercor]

Alright, I'll make the necessary changes to the list.

I suggest everyone take one final look at the list and post your concerns. I'll give it one more day, and if there is nothing else, I will close this thread so we can begin new discussions regarding new faction units, aor units, and of course DMB/EDU limitation.

Oh here's something that will free up plenty of room. Faction's should only have one General's unit instead of two. Any arguments against this?

I think Rome should have two types of general's bodyguard: one before the Marian reforms (equites consulares) and one after the reforms (legatus). The other factions should only get one.

And yes Germanic berserkers existed but if I remember correctly they are a bit overpowered in vanilla.

If they are to stay, we should: 1st, change their names (bersekr it's a viking word), and 2nd, change their weapon (that wannabe 2hand warhammer is just silly).

[Mausolos of Caria]

Yeah I forgot that about berserkers, agreed.

Prodromoi: Skirmisher cavalry, with javelins and a short sword (Basically mounted peltasts) Not sure where they recruited from, though...

Hippeis: The noblemen of a polis who could afford a horse would join the citizen army on the back of their horses (unless they were Spartans) so they are very much like the Roman cavalry. But similar to the Romans, as we all know, the (poleis) Greeks weren't the greatest riders so they might rather be named Medium cavalry instead of Heavy cavalry (they barely stood a chance against Thessalian or Companion cavarly).

Hippokontistai (I guess you mean them? ) : Skirmisher cavalry like the Prodromoi from what I know. Not entirely sure here, but Prodromoi might be citizen cavalry while Hippokontistai might be mercenaries (others mods confirm the latter). Maybe Prodroimoi are poorer nobles or middle class men who had a horse and didn't want to fight as hoplites, while the hippokontistai were Northern Greeks (since Alexander also seems to have had some) who were hired as mercenaries by the poleis in urgent cases.
I'd say Hippokontistai should be made either mercenaries or more expensive both in upkeep and recruitment than the Prodromoi, but also stronger since mercenaries would have more experience in cavalry battles than, say, an Athenian trader.

[ahowl11]

Thank you Mausolos!

[b257]

In extended culture's, they nerfed the Berserker so they don't trample infantry like Elephants, perhaps we could do the same here.

[ahowl11]

Yeah that's a good idea.

[ahowl11]

Before I head off to sleep and then wake up for a 13 hour day at work, I need to make one more suggestion for the Romans.
Auxilia
Light Auxilia
Cavalry Auxilia

I don't think we need them, especially since there were specific Auxilias out there.

[Bercor]

Auxilia infantry and Light auxilia can be ditched.

On the other hand, post-Marian cavalry auxilia were very iconic and distinctive, with the romans providing much of the equipment, and, as such, I think they should have unique access to them. However, I dislike the ideia of a single unit of cavalry auxilia for all the map, so would suggest something similar of the approach taken by Europa Barbarorum's team, with specific AOR cavalry auxilia after the Marian Reforms.

[ahowl11]

Yeah I agree. The Cavalry Auxilia unit should be ditched too since in the game it's a jav/cav unit

[ahowl11]

One last edit before this discussion is closed.
Pontic Heavy Cavalry didn't exist and I've never liked the unit anyway. Pontic Light Cavalry can stay since they can represent the Jav Cav that Pontus used.