The Classical Phalanx - over-arm or underarm?

[Clockwork]

Zulu spears I'm pretty sure were used underhand... an overhand makes sense if perhaps the spear is throwable so it can be easily hurled in a pinch? Can't see a good reason other than that.

The reason that anyone with access to a river would fight overarm is because that is how you fish with a spear. Give a peasant a spear and he'll try and 'fish' someone instead of attack them. I get that you mean for a professional army which wouldn't be likely to do that, I'm just trying to think of reasons why somebody (anybody) would

I would agree with Jubal though that the main reason would have to be because you would be throwing whatever you have overarm. Then again the hoplon shield isn't made for jav throwing at all, counterbalance is all wrong again.

The Zulu's and tribesmen did not have a hoplon. There is point fighting without a heavy shield overarm, you have a lot larger angle of attack at kill hits (face, through top of shoulder, neck) whereas underarm is better for doing *any* damage such as a stick in the fleshy side, which is unlikely to outright kill unless you hit an organ which leaks various hazardous fluids, giving your opponent free reign to do whatever as you're momentarily weaponless. Zulus and tribesmen also didn't fight in formation and would run at and leap at enemies, which a 2 handed overarm grip is much more powerful for.

[Bercor]

Agreed, but, once again, in an hoplite formation, this type of underhand would be completely impossible:

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Only this stance could be used:

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[Alavaria]

Another question: was adding cloth or leather to the bottom of the shield also used in the relevant time period?

[Bercor]

Sorry, I don't follow. You mean leather inside the shield (as where you hold it) or around it?

[Silver Wolf]

The part where forearm meets shield surface, probably.

[Alavaria]

It hangs below the lower edge of the shield. I think they did it to help defend against missiles that might go underneath it.

[Bercor]

During the Hellenistic era, there's not any mention that I know of. The hoplite aspis was quickly becaming obsolete and it was slowly being replaced by the thureos. Personally, I think it's improbable that they would strap cloth or leather to the shield with the intention of protecting the legs from missiles, seeing as the thureos offers a good protection, height wise.

Of course, there could have been some isolated cases.

[Alavaria]

There was some greek name for it that I don't recall. Something like this:

[Bercor]

Interesting figure.

Yeah, but, as I said, during the Hellenistic times, that probably was not widely used.

[Silver Wolf]

I must admit that I've never seen that...

Maybe it was used in some cases to distinguish officers?

[Alavaria]

I think it was suggested you might add it if you couldn't afford the metal greaves... but I can't find more details. Was hoping some of the historians here might have heard of it.

I guess chaps able to afford things like bronze armor wouldn't bother, it would've made the shield more annoying to use I guess...

[Bercor]

Mausolos is probably your best chance to give you an insight on that. You should post that question in the RTR subforum, or pm him.

[Silver Wolf]

Was hoping some of the historians here might have heard of it.

Jubal is the only historian here, if I'm not mistaken?

[Bercor]

Yeah, Mausolos it's just a wannabe historian.

[Jubal]

No, technically Mausolos I think has done more than I have, he's doing his master's whereas I'm halfway through my first degree? And xeofox IIRC is actually a professional, though his stuff would more usually be put with archaeology than history departments.

It's partly (as usual) the quirks of my Uni, history students are always referred to as historians here regardless of level. That said, I am planning to at least do a doctorate, so we'll see.