Atlanta-area police shoot dead unarmed, naked African-American man

[Jubal]

Related to the topic:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/10/us-usa-police-georgia-idUSKBN0M60CI20150310

This guy was probably mentally ill (and naked, so pretty safe to say that he wasn't armed). The problem of trigger-happy cops just doesn't seem to be going away any time soon...

[Clockwork]

If some random naked guy ran at me after I told him to stop twice I'd definitely shoot the portugal out of him with whatever was easier.

[Jubal]

That would be murder (and indeed I have no qualms about calling this case an act of state-sanctioned murder). There is no self-defence justification for shooting a naked man dead, and doubly so when you're carrying a theoretically non-lethal weapon as well.

[Clockwork]

Murder is literally a perspective. Mental illness is just bullarmadillo. Whether he has it or no, there has obviously been nothing done to treat it which is his own fault. His actions are still his own.

From your perspective the cop should have let the naked guy run at him. If naked guy is crazy and on the non prescription kind of drugs which is damn likely, the taser might not even have stopped him. On enough coke or heroin or pcp or something you'll be able to walk/run right on through a taser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzYGyrz4KLQ). If the naked guy then tackled him to the ground bit his throat out and the cop died you'd still say that the naked guy can't help it because he's crazy. That's also bullarmadillo, plenty of people have mental disorders which mean that they aren't even aware of what they're doing sometimes. They don't do this armadillo because they get treated and they get help.

[Jubal]

In case you hadn't noticed, the US doesn't have a state funded healthcare system. Someone who is poor, or homeless, probably can't afford mental health treatment. Unless you're arguing that people are only poor because it's their own fault... but you might have noticed that the US has structural unemployment, and moreover it's pretty hard to get a job if you're severely mentally ill.

[Clockwork]

That's not how it works Jub. If you don't have health insurance you still get state healthcare, in fact the states spent more on healthcare last year than any other country according to WHO. The quality is not as good as private sector, especially for mental health but it is there. The point still stands even taking out whether the guy had access to care or not, why should a cop risk his life to that degree for someone he doesn't know?

[Jubal]

Because going out and risking your safety for the protection of the citizens of your country is literally the point of being a policeman?

[Clockwork]

There's risking your life and then there's just being dumb. Letting a naked guy run you down is the latter. No, keeping the law is the point of being a policeman, which this guy did.

[Jubal]

You're using a strawman - not shooting a guy is not the same as letting them run you down, you're creating a binary dichotomy between the two that doesn't exist.

[Clockwork]

So you think there's some third option other than either shoot the guy running at you or letting him continue to run? Run away? That doesn't solve anything, there's still a naked guy chasing you or perhaps he attacks someone else. Taser him I've already said might not work and wouldn't work quick enough if you're being charged anyway.

[Othko97]

Presumably the cop had a taser. Even if he didn't, the guy was naked, it's not like he was concealing a knife. I'm pretty sure that a grown man employed by the government to prevent crime can handle a man likely with mental illness without resorting to shooting him.

[Pentagathus]

 I've not looked at this case yet but I've got to agree with Rob, the problem is that since the officer was carrying a gun then if naked crazy dude had been able to take the cop down he could have potentially wrestled the gun from him, obviously making him much more of a threat to the general public. Its always going to be a problem when you have cops armed with guns but America can't avoid arming cops considering the gun culture they have, it just wouldn't be feasible.

[comrade_general]

"You know why we question him? Because I got him in the leg. I didn't shoot him full of holes or try to jump off a building with him."
"If some guy is hurting someone, I try to shoot him in the leg or something, just to stop him."

- Detective Murtaugh in Lethal Weapon

If I went to training to get a concealed carry license I would be barred from getting it if I shot the practice target in the kill zone on purpose, but it seems that's what they train cops to do these days.

[Jubal]

^ This. You can generally shoot people in non-fatal areas! I feel kind of depressed that "shoot people once in the leg instead of twice in the chest" is the level of improvement we're having to suggest here, but it would at least be something.

[Clockwork]

@Othko, if the guy had serious mental illness, he could have been scared out of his mind seeing things. This gives you a hell of an adrenalin rush, people on that much adrenalin have way more strength than someone just regularly scared of a naked guy running at them. If the guy was on drugs, same deal. I also linked a vid showing a guy getting tasered 4 times and still throwing 2 cops about and explained why tasers would most likely be ineffective in this case.

Thanks penty good point.

@cg Very true although I don't know where the guy was shot, it just says he was shot twice, it's not like there are many places on a human body where blood loss won't be a problem anyway.

The point I was going for which has hopefully been made is that it isn't necessarily a cop killing a guy just because. It could be the case that he shot the guy for armadillos and giggles but unless the guy actually says it and there's enough evidence, the rest is bandwagon jumping.

There's something to be said for making split second decisions also but that's a petty argument.