Author Topic: Ask a Tolkien question  (Read 5136 times)

Jubal

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Ask a Tolkien question
« on: September 19, 2014, 10:34:34 PM »
Like Colossus' Star Wars thread but for the works of JRR Tolkien :)

Ask a thing! I will answer it, or Glaurung might do as he knows about five times what I do, except possibly on the topic of Dwarves...
The duke, the wanderer, the philosopher, the mariner, the warrior, the strategist, the storyteller, the wizard, the wayfarer...

Gen_Glory

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 11:17:12 PM »
Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol!
Tis but a scratch...


comrade_general

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 11:37:56 PM »
Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol!
I would also like to know this one.
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Jubal

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2014, 12:07:31 AM »
The first rule of Bombadil club is that you do not sing "Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol!"
The second rule of Bombadil club is that you do not sing "Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol!"

:P
The duke, the wanderer, the philosopher, the mariner, the warrior, the strategist, the storyteller, the wizard, the wayfarer...

Clockwork

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2014, 04:13:25 PM »
Why isn't there a LOTR: Return of FIGWIT movie, a feature length film encompassing the trials and tribulations of this elfs six or seven seconds of screentime?

I also have an actual question...What exactly is Glorfindel? I get the impression that he's like an elf-angel thing.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.


Jubal

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2014, 05:48:04 PM »
Glorfindel is an elf - as far as we know or are told he is just an elf. All the elves aren't far off angelic, that said.
The duke, the wanderer, the philosopher, the mariner, the warrior, the strategist, the storyteller, the wizard, the wayfarer...

Clockwork

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2014, 10:37:57 PM »
Oh, I was under the impression he was part maia or something. Or are all the ancient elves part maia? Or none of them and I've read too many wiki pages.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.


Jubal

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 11:41:30 PM »
Not the ancient ones, those are more likely to be pure elf. I think the only part-maia elves would be those of Maiar parentage, of which the only example I know of is that of Melian, the mother of Luthien (and ancestor of Elrond, Aragorn, etc).
The duke, the wanderer, the philosopher, the mariner, the warrior, the strategist, the storyteller, the wizard, the wayfarer...

comrade_general

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2014, 12:23:11 AM »
Was that particular Glorfindel descended of Melian or was he a resurrected Gondolin Glorfindel?
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Glaurung

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2014, 09:30:23 AM »
I'm fairly sure that "Rivendell" Glorfindel wasn't descended from Melian, since we're told about the whole line of descent down to Elrond's children, and there's no mention of any grandchildren. It's not clear whether "Rivendell" Glorfindel is the same as "Gondolin" Glorfindel - there's no other example of an Elf killed in the First Age returning to Middle-earth, but it's not impossible for this to happen. On the other hand, they might just be two Elves with the same name: Glorfindel means "golden-haired", a highly unusual characteristic in Elves.

Jubal may be able to add more, because he's read the History of Middle-earth books. There's nothing in Tolkien's Letters, for the simple reason that the Silmarillion was published after he died, and hence no-one knew that there was a "Gondolin" Glorfindel until it was too late to ask  :(

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2014, 12:07:14 PM »
I read them too and I remember it just as you said, I just wanted to get some opinions. :)
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Clockwork

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2014, 09:44:37 AM »
Tolkien said they were the same Elf in later writings even though LotR and Silmarillion contradict this. Apparently Glorfindel came back during the second age by the Valar to be a proto-Istari type thing. But I guess the question was answered, ty contributors :)

Why was Elrond not sufficiently powerful to defeat Sauron? Elves of earlier ages performed feats that would make that a walk in the proverbial ash torn tundra. I guess the old rule of 'One does not simply walk into Mordor' applies.
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Glaurung

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2014, 01:44:07 PM »
Tolkien said they were the same Elf in later writings even though LotR and Silmarillion contradict this. Apparently Glorfindel came back during the second age by the Valar to be a proto-Istari type thing.
As a matter of interest, can you remember where Tolkien said that? I don't disbelieve you, I'd just like to know how he justified it. I don't think LotR or the Silmarillion contradict the "one Glorfindel" hypothesis, but they don't support it either; as far as I can recall, neither book says anything about Glorfindel outside his/their immediate context in the book.

Why was Elrond not sufficiently powerful to defeat Sauron? Elves of earlier ages performed feats that would make that a walk in the proverbial ash torn tundra.
Generally, elves are less powerful than Maiar, even in the First Age - Finrod Felagund could not defeat Sauron, for example. Also, there's a sense that the Elves' powers are weakening with time; I don't know whether this applies to individual elves, but collectively they are less numerous and less powerful as the Ages go by.

Why isn't there a LOTR: Return of FIGWIT movie, a feature length film encompassing the trials and tribulations of this elfs six or seven seconds of screentime?
Don't say it too loudly - Peter Jackson might hear you :P

Jubal

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 03:32:02 PM »
Don't underestimate Sauron either; sure some first age elves killed balrogs, but killing a maia of Sauron's standing would be a rather different feat - and balrogs were front line troops too, Sauron's command & control role and use of crazy horcrux madness made him pretty damn difficult to get rid of!
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Clockwork

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Re: Ask a Tolkien question
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 04:37:38 PM »
Quote
As a matter of interest, can you remember where Tolkien said that? I don't disbelieve you, I'd just like to know how he justified it. I don't think LotR or the Silmarillion contradict the "one Glorfindel" hypothesis, but they don't support it either; as far as I can recall, neither book says anything about Glorfindel outside his/their immediate context in the book.

In The Return of the Shadow and The Peoples of Middle Earth. I'm just researching it on the wiki following the sources they cite. It also says that Tolkien decided Elf names were unique, which means that there can't be two either.

Morgoth was more powerful than Sauron and Fingolfin managed to slice that guy pretty bad. Even if he did kind of get stomped as well. And Elrond is not too far removed from them, assuming that makes a difference as per usual where previous generations of Elves are more powerful/magical.

FIGWIT does in fact have a 57 min video made by his wife and friends.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 04:53:09 PM by Colossus »
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.