Gaza

[Jubal]

It's a mess, but who do you blame? What needs to happen to resolve the conflict?

[Jubal]

These two posts from TWC give my view...

Hamas is a radical organisation which needs to stop attacking Israeli citizens. On the other hand, the increasingly powerful Zionist faction of the Israelis is as brutal towards the Arabs as Hitler was to the Jews (or would be if they could). Can you balme the Palestinians for supporting resistance? Gaza has, despite being under a democratically elected government, been turned into a concentration camp over the past few months. If Israel offers starvation and Hamas offers schools and hosptials, which the hell do you think the Palestinians will go for? I personally can't stand Hamas, but until the Israelis are willing to show they can cooperate and use restraint (evicting illegals from the West Bank, helping Fatah to become a workable government and funding the West Bank into a clearly better alternative to Gaza so Palestinian people can see that more moderate partis are a good alternative) then Israel cannotn win without its current tactic of wading to victory through Palestinan blood, and that is unacceptable.

I am not a Hamas sympathiser. I have no sympathy at all with the aims of Hamas. All I am pointing out is that the Israeli's can't win without either giving the Palestinians help/support so they aren't drawn to terrorism or wading through the civilian bloodbath we now see in Gaza. I don't believe, as some peoplr seem to, that every Palestinian, probably not even quite a lot of the fighters, are insane radicals by nature. Many of them consider they have to fight a coutry that has, after their democratically electing an unfriendly governement, cut off all their trade links thy need to survive, bombed vast numbers of civilians (even targeting schools and hospitals). I don't think Hamas is at all in the right, but Israel's response - killing hundreds of Palestinian civilians for tens of Israeli deaths - is totally unacceptable as well. Why people can't see that I simply don't know...

[Pentagathus]

Pretty much the same for me. It's a big steaming pile of armadillo that should have never have come to what it is.

[Jubal]

Mandatory terry pratchett quote;

"Your grasp of political reality is masterly, Vimes - you merely lack the diplomatic vocabulary"

In other news, thank god for the ceasefire... But I can't see how this'll be resolved, i really can't.

[Andalus]

I spend far too much time discussing the Palestine situation, so I won't say too much on it. (This is what happens when one's potential girlfriend is half-Palestinian. )

But to sum up my basic views on the situation, both sides have claims, but the Palestinians have the more valid one, in my opinion. There is a general consensus that Israel should never really have formed. However, it would be unjust now to remove the Israelis, and blame them, so to speak, for the sins of their [Zionist] fathers. What needs to happen is for both sides to put down the weapons, and start negotiotions with all cards on the table. Basically, put the past and their differences beside them, and come to a realistic compromise, and maybe even a merging of the two nations. There are obvious complications, but words will do better than weapons.

[Jubal]

But the trouble is there are still extremists in Palestine and Zionists in Israel, both of whom want to continue the war... while the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians on the ground suffer. It's despicable tbh.

[Andalus]

Exactly - those people are the obvious complications. While they are still around, an end to the conflict is unlikely.