An Eastern AoR Journey with Arjos

[ahowl11]

Hello, Arjos and I have spent the past few days with a Q&A session about the troop types in the eastern and steppe regions. We are now finished! I am posting this here for reference.

Area - Anatolia
Anatolian Spearmen - Cap, oval shield, spear
Anatolian Highlanders
Anatolian Slingers
Anatolian Mounted Skirmishers - Our Eastern Light Cavalry
Anatolian Cavalry - javelins, spear, helmet, linthorax
Hoplites

Bithynia - Nicomedia
Bithynian Infantry - similar to Thracian Infantry
Bithynian Peltasts - similar to Thureophoroi but with Round Shields (reform unit)

Paphlagonia - Heraclea Pontica
Paphlagonian Cavalry - Shield and Spear

Phrygia - Pessinus, Galatia - Ancyra
Galatian Swordsmen
Galatian Raiders
Galatian Spearmen
Galatian Nobles

Mysia - Pergamum
Mysian Highlanders
Mysian Archers
Galatian Spearmen

Lydia - Sardis
Lydian Cavalry - Lancers without Shields

Caria - Halicarnassus
Carian Warband - Javelins and Swords

Lycia - Patara, Pisidia - Sagalassus, Pamphylia - Side, Lyaconia - Iconium
Southern Anatolian Warband - similar in equipment to the Hoplitai, but with a Pelte shield, more mobile and with javelins

Cilicia - Tarsus
Cilician Light Infantry- Labelled ''Cilician Pirates'' in other mods, light swordsmen (see RTR VII)

Armenia Minor - Trapezus
Caucasian Skirmishers
Hoplites
Chalybian Infantry - Swordsmen
Lesser Armenian Cavalry - Shields and bows, heavily equipped

Pontus - Amida, Sinope
Pontic Infantry - influenced by Galatians; Sword, Mail, Thureos Shield (reform unit) (Pontus, Armenia, Seleucid only)
Pontic Cavalry - theuros, javelins, sword (reform unit) (Pontus only)

Cappadocia - Amasia, Mazaka
Cappadocian Infantry - similar to the Pontic Infantry, but with spear instead (reform unit) (Pontus, Armenia, Seleucid only)
Cappadocian Cavalry - we already have this unit in

Area - Caucasus
Caucasian Skirmishers - Representing the tribes in the area (not in Albania)
Caucasian Lancers

Colchis - Kotais
Colchian Infantry - hoplite shield and spear, but native equipment, fights independently, not in phalanx

Iberia - Mtshketa
Kartvelian Infantry - Spearmen with native equipment
Kartvelian Cavalry - Skirmisher Cavalry
Kartvelian Royal Guard - Javelins and Sword (XGM's Georgian Swordsmen comes to mind)

Albania - Gatara
Albanian Infantry - Skirmisher/Spearmen
Albanian Cavalry - Skirmisher/Cavalry

Area - Armenia
Armenian Spearmen
Armenian Archers
Armenian Mounted Skirmishers
Armenian Horse Archers

Area - Mesopatamia
Aramean Infantry - Similar to hoplites but with scaled armor and maces
Aramean Phalangites - Levy Pikemen

Palmyra
Camel Archer-Spearmen

Assyria - Nisibis
Syrian Archers

Area - Levant
Aramean Infantry
Aramean Phalangites

Syria - Antioch
Syrian Archers

Judea - Jerusalem
Judean Infantry - Small round shield, javelins, spear
Idumean Archers

Area - Iran
Iranian Cavalry - Medium Cavalry with Spear
Iranian Skirmishers - Our Eastern Skirmishers unit

Media - Gazaca, Ecbatana, Rhagai
Mardian Archers - Have them, only in Media Atropatene/Gazaca
Cadusian Skirmishers - Have them
Cyrtian Axemen
Median Cavalry
Median Kardakes - Our Eastern Infantry unit, not in Media Atropatene/Gazaca

Persia -Susa, Istakhr
Persian Archers
Persian Cavalry
Persian Kardakes - Our Persian Spearmen

Hyrcania - Zadracarta
Hyrcanian Axemen

Parthia - Hekotompylus
Parthian Thureophoroi - Reform unit

Area - Eastern Iran
Eastern Archer Spearmen - Our Persian Archer Spearmen unit, no shield
Eastern Cavalry - Our Barcanian Horsemen unit with javelins (not in Gedrosia/Pura)
Eastern Skirmishers - Our Bactrian Skirmishers

Arachosia - Alexandropolis
Arachosian Cavalry - Our Hyrcanian Cavalry

Bactria - Bactra-Zariaspa
Bactrian Cavalry - Have it

Area - Eastern Steppe
Steppe Horse Archers - Have it
Steppe Foot Archers - Have it
Steppe Lancers - Have it
Steppe Spearmen - Have it

Chorasmia - Toprak
Chorasmian Spearmen - Spearmen with Round Shield

Dahae - Igdi
Dahae Nobles - Armoured Cavalry with Horse Guard
Parni Horse Archers

Area - Western Steppe
Steppe Horse Archers - Have it
Steppe Foot Archers - Have it
Steppe Lancers - Have it

Scythia - Olbia, Amadoca, Gelonus, Gerrhos
Scythian Horse Archers
Scythian Foot Archers
Scythian Nobles

Sarmatia - Tanais, Uspe, Roxanace
Sarmatian Horse Archers
Sarmatian Foot Archers
Sarmatian Nobles

Bosporus - Chersonesus, Panticapaeum, Phanagoria
Hoplites
Bosporan Infantry - Theuros, Spear, Light to no armor
Taurian Skirmishers - A fierce native tribe in the Cimmerian Bosporus. They were known for their raiding and piracy. (Only In Panticapeaum, Chersonesus)
Machairaphoroi - The Machaira was the most popular sword in the region, followed by the Scythian Dagger or Akinakes. Of course it would be used by the hoplites, but it seems as if once the hoplites faded away that a more standard unit with swords were used. This unit would have a chalcidian helmet, a cape, and probably scythian scaled armor. I doubt they were used in mass, so we could lower the troop count. Not an elite unit, but probably a pretty good one.
Bosporan Cavalry - Would be the general's unit as well as nobility that fought. Armed in Scythian style gear, and more than likely were the Scythian Aristocracy that resided in the Kingdom.

Maeotis - Tanais
Maeotian Infantry - Would make these guys spearmen, or we could make them archers. The natives (Tauri, Sindi, Maeotae) were not heavy troops but instead quick and light.

Sindica - Phanagoria
Sindian Infantry - Across the strait of Kerch, near Phanagoria is where the Sindians resided. They were of Maeotian Stock but were heavily hellenized. A mix of native and greek gear along with javelins would make this unit.
Sindian Cavalry - Would be a jav-cav unit.

Olbia
Olbian Hoplites - Lighter equipped and quicker, had good account against Scythians in 2nd Century

Amadoca/Gelonus
Slavic Spearmen - Simple warrior with spear

[Mausolos of Caria]

Did you base it on my old list on TWC?

[ahowl11]

A lot from that list, never existed, was too early, or too late for our time period. I'll let Arjos elaborate on it.

[Mausolos of Caria]

A lot from that list, never existed, was too early, or too late for our time period. I'll let Arjos elaborate on it.

The changes are actually not that great. I always said we don't need all these specific units for Lydians, Pisidians, Pamphylians etc which are basically the same- not to mention that a lot of the equipment and looks for AoR units will be educated guessing anyway.


Also, where are the Aramean Phalangites from, or the Aramean Infantry too? I never read of any of these and the former sound like Pantodapoi, who were last mentioned in the 310s and then disappeared, as the Seleucids opted not to recruit natives in the phalanx. A small number was recruited by the Seleucids, they didn't fight in a phalanx but I can't find much more on their equipment. By the same logic, Jewish troops were ONLY recruited from Diaspora Jews and seem to have been an effective force, being successfull in crashing lesser rebellions in the East. The Seleucids almost NEVER EVER employed Syrians (including Palestinian Jews), because it was their power base and they feared similar consequences as the Machimoi had caused in Egypt. Greco- Macedonian troops could still surpress uprisings in far parts of the Empire like Pamphylia or Carmania, if those troops rebelled, but Syria (and Babylonia probably, too) was too important. Only Babylonian Jews and other Diaspora Jews were recruited and formed this skilled force. Other Jews were recruited by pretenders to the throne after the Hasmonean revolt, but never by the royal central authority- and even in the service of the rivals, they were often illoyal and kept switching sides, as can be read in the sources for the Hasmonean wars.
In Ptolemaic Egypt there were far more common, Jews served as part of the Machairophoroi, for example, a guard and police force in Egypt, and were also recruited into regular troops. This is a difficult subject, but I'd suggest to have Jewish Infantry as AoR troops in Judaea and possibly some diaspora regions like Babylon. And if Seleucid recruitment in Syria would be restricted, that would be good- all this is extensively described in Griffith's Mercenaries of the Hellenistic World.


Apart from that, out of curiosity, I'd like to see the source for the Bithynian Peltasts? Pirro drew up a roster for Bithynia last year and did not have them, despite having found a pretty new paper on their army.


Then, Kardakes, seriously? You blame me for writing down early units and suggest professional troops of the ACHAEMENID Empire as AoR Troops? Maybe you meant Sparabara? They were initially Achaemenid troops as well, but at least continued to exist into 300 BC and other mods all use them, too.


We could also do with Lydian Akontistai. Those of the Psiloi that fought as javelinmen were in general called Akontistai. The Lydians are compared to the Agrianians by Griffith, so they might have been an elite (Elite Javelinmen). Bar- Kochva concluded that these can't be the Lydians in Asia Minor because Akontistai points at mountainous, incivilized people and that the Lydians were described as heavy armoured infantry already by Herodotos. Thus, he concluded they are to be identified with the Lubdu (Assyrian, Lud in Hebrew), a tribe dwelling in Western Media and Atropatene, on the Upper Tigris. We can rename them Lubdu Akontistai, but in Polybios' text they are named Lydoi and the Lubdu are obviously attested in earlier time periods.


And we should certainly have Osrhoene Archers, who are mentioned in the sources and are one of the most famous examples of actual ''AoR'' units in history. Of course they appear only in the 1st century BC, but our campaign goes that far anyway and without later units we have no source at all for factions like Pontos.


What about Arab troops? Polybios mentions 10 000 Spearmen, who Griffiths classified as ''light'', at Raphia.


Possibly xeofox knows a bit about the Dahae, since mounted archers and 2000 foot archers, recruited as mercenaries, are also mentioned fighting for the Seleucids at Raphia.

[DCLXVIMRTRVEBLAKKOKKVLTDCLXVI]

Then, Kardakes, seriously? You blame me for writing down early units and suggest professional troops of the ACHAEMENID Empire as AoR Troops? Maybe you meant Sparabara? They were initially Achaemenid troops as well, but at least continued to exist into 300 BC and other mods all use them, too.

I'm not a historian so I don't know how (in)accurate this book is but it mentions kardakes being present at the battle of Raphia:
https://books.google.be/books?id=eqxipjRXCf4C&pg=PA734&lpg=PA734&dq=kardakes+raphia&source=bl&ots=LnJ38Xrmno&sig=LhUAFKsGkDpnw-OAUtehxHsEmqU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJw5HGyInQAhXjAsAKHe_YALUQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=kardakes%20raphia&f=false

[Mausolos of Caria]

Then, Kardakes, seriously? You blame me for writing down early units and suggest professional troops of the ACHAEMENID Empire as AoR Troops? Maybe you meant Sparabara? They were initially Achaemenid troops as well, but at least continued to exist into 300 BC and other mods all use them, too.

I'm not a historian so I don't know how (in)accurate this book is but it mentions kardakes being present at the battle of Raphia:
https://books.google.be/books?id=eqxipjRXCf4C&pg=PA734&lpg=PA734&dq=kardakes+raphia&source=bl&ots=LnJ38Xrmno&sig=LhUAFKsGkDpnw-OAUtehxHsEmqU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJw5HGyInQAhXjAsAKHe_YALUQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=kardakes%20raphia&f=false

Maybe I also confused them with another heavy unit, as Kardakes seem to have been a tribe as well. Nevermind then, but there are still some other questions