Author Topic: In the News  (Read 82731 times)

Jubal

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Re: In the News
« Reply #525 on: June 16, 2016, 10:59:41 PM »
Shot and stabbed; the attacker used some kind of handmade/antiquated gun at very close range, according to reports.
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Glaurung

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Re: In the News
« Reply #526 on: June 16, 2016, 11:04:45 PM »
Here's the BBC News article. This is the darkest day in British politics for many years.

Here's another link, to an article in the Spectator. It expresses a lot of what I'm feeling now, but rather more carefully and eloquently than I am currently able to.

Jubal

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Re: In the News
« Reply #527 on: June 17, 2016, 04:28:19 PM »
It's becoming increasingly clear that this was a far-right terrorist attack; reports are just coming in that police have found a lot of far-right material at the killer's house, and suspect that the attack was a premeditated assassination.
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comrade_general

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Re: In the News
« Reply #528 on: June 17, 2016, 05:11:33 PM »
Well obviously. Who else would kill a far left nut other than a far right nut?

If it happened here CNN be all like "he had a homemade ar15 assault rifle".
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Glaurung

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Re: In the News
« Reply #529 on: June 17, 2016, 07:14:12 PM »
Who else would kill a far left nut other than a far right nut?
CG: I don't know whether you're joking about this, perhaps because I have no sense of humour whatsoever about the whole situation at the moment. In fact I am extremely angry.

I would just point out that Jo Cox was not "a far-left nut": she was an elected representative in the UK Parliament, standing for a mainstream UK party. She had previously worked as a director for the charity Oxfam, with a particular focus on refugees from Syria, and was also active in the Remain campaign - both things which may have contributed to her becoming a target. She evidently cared a great deal about people, both close to her and further away, and worked very hard to make the world a better place. If you'd like to know more, there is extensive coverage on the BBC News website (via the link I posted yesterday) and every other British media outlet.

comrade_general

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Re: In the News
« Reply #530 on: June 17, 2016, 07:37:10 PM »
World keeps on spinnin'.
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Glaurung

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Re: In the News
« Reply #531 on: June 17, 2016, 11:07:53 PM »
CG: I thought we were friends. If so, I'd appreciate you taking a little time to understand my position. If you can't be bothered to do that, then at least have the civility to keep quiet.

Pentagathus

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Re: In the News
« Reply #532 on: June 18, 2016, 12:16:10 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36562167
I found this article quite an interesting read, it's rare that we think of just how vulnerable our MPs are to such violence even in normal times. Although strangely enough I had been thinking about this recently, in that I found it odd that terrorist groups don't target MPs, since even quite high profile politicians should be relatively easy to assassinate for someone willing to die for it. But I guess that doesn't actually do anything to sow fear in the general public, and wouldn't do any good for most terrorist groups.
Yet more cheery thoughts for the news thread.

Glaurung

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Re: In the News
« Reply #533 on: June 18, 2016, 12:41:19 AM »
I found it odd that terrorist groups don't target MPs
Not at the moment, but the IRA and INLA did - four murders of MPs between 1979 and 1990. This included the bomb at the Brighton hotel hosting the Conservative Party conference in 1984, which could easily have killed many members of the government. Wikipedia article for reference.

comrade_general

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Re: In the News
« Reply #534 on: June 18, 2016, 12:48:08 AM »
Sorry, G. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack on you.

We're all friends here, I hope. It's just these damn politics.

And if you think murder isn't part of politics, well, history would tell a very different story. Not inconceivable even in the 21st century. Humans always have and always will be violent animals. The only way we've evolved in the last few thousand years is coming up with more effective ways to murder each other.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 02:44:39 AM by comrade_general »
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Glaurung

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Re: In the News
« Reply #535 on: June 18, 2016, 10:26:40 AM »
I accept that murder is, very occasionally, a part of politics. However, it shouldn't be. Reading through the Wikipedia list I posted last night, this is the first time since at least 1800 (and probably the English Civil War in the 1640s) that an MP has been killed purely because of their political beliefs. Six were killed by Irish republican groups, at least in part because they represented the British state; one was killed over a personal debt. Only Jo Cox has been killed for standing up for what she believed in.

This feels to me like a direct attack on a lot of things that I hold dear, especially the sense I have of Britain as a civilised country where we can have political debate, however vigorous, without resorting to violence. It's a dagger in the guts of our political process - I am shocked and outraged. Also, my political resolve is strengthened: it is vitally important to show that we can do politics calmly and civilly, and to be seen to do so. So I will carry on my activities with the LibDems and the Remain campaign with Jo Cox very much in mind.

Meanwhile, in further news, the man arrested on Thursday has now been formally charged with the murder.

Pentagathus

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Re: In the News
« Reply #536 on: June 18, 2016, 11:02:04 AM »
He gave his name in court as Freedom for Britain and Death to Traitors so I think it's pretty fair to say this was politically motivated. Not that that means he isn't still a nutter of course.
Yeah I know about the IRA attacks G, I was thinking of more recent terror attacks (well maybe not the most recent ones inspired by isis and pure fanaticism) whose perpetrators often gave the reasons as being for revenge against the Iraq invasion and other military interventions. But attacking the public for that makes no sense when you could actually target the MPs who voted in favour of these things. But of course that wouldn't do as much to alienate Muslims and make them more vulnerable to radicalization.

comrade_general

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Re: In the News
« Reply #537 on: June 18, 2016, 03:31:01 PM »
What if she had been a strong supporter of Brexit and all the other opposite side stuff? Just curious.
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.

Glaurung

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Re: In the News
« Reply #538 on: June 18, 2016, 04:43:53 PM »
To answer literally: then she wouldn't be dead. There is a extreme left fringe in the UK, but I don't think it's inclined to kill people.

If the murdered MP had been campaigning for Leave, I would like to think that I would have been equally outraged - it would certainly constitute an equal attack on British democracy and values. But it's hard to say: I don't think I'm immune to the tribalism of this campaign, or politics in general, and I imagine that would affect my emotional reaction. To take an example from the US, I think I would react quite differently to news that Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders had been murdered.

comrade_general

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Re: In the News
« Reply #539 on: June 19, 2016, 12:41:57 AM »
So... you would want them dead?
I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.