Factions, Factions, Factions

[ahowl11]

The thought and possibility of adding in Epirus, has got my mind thinking. I am concerned with the faction list right now and the good thing is, I still have time to change it. I will go through the current list and analyze each faction historically as of 280 BC and then propose some ideas below.

The Roman Republic - The heart of the entire game, of course they are in!
The Republic of Carthage - You would be stupid to say no to Carthage
The Antigonid Kingdom - Will definitely be in, at this time they were in an interesting position
The Seleucid Empire - Yes, In.
The Ptolemaic Empire - Of course
The Kingdom of Pontus - Brand new Kingdom, but they were there and the future is bright. IN.
The Kingdom of Armenia - Debate whether they are independant, I believe they are. In.
Parthians - Okay they will be in, but I'd like to have them appear later in the game. I will explain below.
Numidians - At this time in history, the Numidians were divided into two tribes. They will be in, representing one of the tribes.
The Greek City States - ahistorical but there is nothing you can really do about it. They will represent the major greek cities. I will explain more below.
Gauls - similar to the Greeks, will explain below
Germans - are in, they will represent a single tribe at the beginning
Dacians - are in
Iberians - are in and will likely represent the Luistani
Sarmatians - are in but it's frustrating because nobody plays as them
Thracians - I want them in but I don't know, they will probably make it
Britons - I would like to have them in, but they do not bring much. They really were irrelevant until Caesar's expeditions.
Illyrians - I believe they should be in, and more than likely they will be
The Bosporan Kingdom - I like them being in as they give people a reason to play as the Sarmatians and they can represent the Scythians as well
The Nabataean Kingom - were around, but did not really do anything. they were more important in the AD's. I want them in though to add some flavor. I don't know about them yet.
Rebels - I need to find ways to make them stronger, more independant and aggressive

Parthia:
So in 247 BC the governor of Parthia proclaimed independance from the Seleucid Empire. In 238 BC the Parni invaded, killed the successor and took over Parthia which began the Parthian Empire.
Would I be able to make Parthia appear in 238 BC as a horde? Also by doing that would I be able to make an alternate campaign so the player could play as the Parthians starting in 238 BC?

Greek City States:
In the Main campain this faction would control Sparta, Athens etc like how they were in vanilla. However, I would like to make some alternate campaigns so the player could play as Sparta, Syracuse, or the Achaean or Aetolian leagues. Also I could use them to play as Pergamum, Cyrene, or Massilia as well. Would this be smart to do? If I did this, then the other city-states would be owned by the Rebels.

Gauls:
Very similar to the Greeks. In the main campaign they can be used as the Celt-Iberians, Galatians, and Gauls, but also have a alternate campaign where the player can take control of the Aedui or Arverni, Insubres, Celt-Iberians or Galatians.

Thracians:
The only reason they would not be in, is if I wanted to include Bactria or something. I could use the Greeks as an alternate campaign for Bactria though. I would rather have Thrace in as a faction because they can represent a Hellenic Kingdom as well as a Native Thracian one.

Britons:
I have done a lot of thinking, and I just feel that they should be in. I would have them start out with Samarobriva as well as a city in Briton. That way the AI can expand. I can use this historically as they could be renamed as the Belgae possibly. I'm leaning towards doing that, but we will see.

Nabataeans:
They might be the odd man out. I like the idea of them, but they would be pretty ahistorical for this mod. Plus they would only control one city surrounded by two empires with a weak army? The future does not look to bright for them right now, and they would end up being Epirus.

Rebels:
I need to find ways to make the Rebels stronger, more aggressive who act like independant nations instead of push overs. Does anyone have any ideas on how I could do this?

I wish all of this could be a lot easier. It would be if there were more faction slots. The faction slots are hard coded right? If I tried adding a 22nd faction the game wouln't work?
It's a dumb question but I might as well ask.

Let's hope everything works for the best. Give me your feedback!

[debux]

It's a long post, and my reply will also be rather long, so I'll go straight to the point.

Parthia
Can't help much there (like on hording and all that), but they need to be. ExRM have a pretty good technique to stop their AI expansion, delaying it until a date that kind of is similar to the date to which they would have become really expansive, albeit it gives them territories they never had.

GCS
Seems like a good idea, but you might want to do all those mini campaigns later... do the important stuff first. This goes for Gauls too.

Thrace
The more I think about it, the less I think it's important for them to be there. Their main highlight in vanilla is their combination of barbaric and hellinistic units, but since you're using AoR, why do it? I think a much more interesting faction can use their slot (like Baktria or a indian faction)

Britons
Both the idea of keeping them, or switching them over to the Belgae seem good. I used to not like having the britons, but since the AI doesn't do much as them (as they historically did) and they give an interesting option to play as (because of their privileged position and interesting roster), they sound like a pretty good inclusion. However, one must note that their only historical significance happens once Ceaser invaded Brittania, and we all know how that ended (not well for the britons, for sure)

Nabateans
They're a interesting faction, for sure... but the RTW engine doesn't favour them. I think the time frame of the mod doesn't suit them. I mean, sure, they're in a really uncommon position, but at this period, in the mod, it would be hard to ensure their survivability, as any of it's both very powerful neighbors can easily focus part of it's force to destroy this small nation. Maybe if the relations among Nabatea and the Ptolemies and Selucids can be changed to a really high value, one can ensure their survivability for a while, although this would mean their expansion would go towards areas (I believe) they never expanded to (like further down the Red Sea). I'd say it's up to you.

Oh, and the 22th factions slot is impossible, no sense trying I mean, if EB wasn't able to do it, I doubt anyone will be able to. It would mean that you'd have to crack open the RTW engine, which is illegal, I believe.

[Jubal]

To be fair, Caesar probably partly invaded Britain because he was concerned about the Brits helping the Gauls.

[ahowl11]

Thanks for the comments, debux you are definitely making me think about Thrace and Briton and whether or not they should be in! Thrace did not do much in History after Lysimachus died. They kind of sat there and fought off Macedonian and Roman armies until they were conquered.

The fact that the Britons didn't do much in history also makes it hard to have them in.

And the Nabataeans are more than likely going to be changed to Epirus.

So here are a few suggestions for new factions:

1) Bactria (would be my first choice to replace the Brtions; XGM helps there)
2) Pergamum (would be my first choice to replace Thrace)
3) Galatians
4) Celt-Iberians

No I will not do two Gallic tribes. If anything I would do Cisalpine Gauls along with the Gauls.

5) Mauryan Empire (Not likely, too much work, and they didn't do anything after giving the Seleucids those Elephants)

6)Bithynia (Interesting, but didn't do much)

I don't think I would add in Aetoilan or Achaean Leagues. They really did not do much

7) Syracuse (Might be interesting, but would just be a copy of the Greeks)

8)Colchian/Iberian faction (would be a first, but I believe we know too little on them, plus they didn't do anything historically

Give me your thoughts

[debux]

Well, for me, I just consider three things upon choosing to include a faction or not:
-They did something historically important (or have a relatively important place in history)
-They have a good position, with good expansion possibilities (and not completely surrounded by other factions)
-They offer a good opportunity to players/to determine AI behaviour (to avoid AI totally steamroll regions that they normally would, if owned by rebels)

Most of these parameters are quite relative, but hopefully they'll help you out.

Quite honestly, I'd push for another barbarian faction, but the little amount on information for factions, aside of most of the ones you've already posted, make it hard. I'd totally go for Baktria though, the Eastern areas really need more spicing (especially, the area in which they are in)... for the rest, I'd have to see the map, and try to picture the relative areas of where they might be. Too late for me to go back to the faction list thread

[ahowl11]

Thought I replied to this but I guess I didn't.

I think everyone knows but to make it official, I have replaced the Nabataeans with The Kingdom of Epirus, and Thrace with The Kingdom of Bactria. This was a fruitful thread and I shall close it. If I ever have a need to replace a faction in the future this thread will be opened.