Discussion: New Faction Units

[Bercor]

No, they should have access to the thureophoroi's and thorakitai's as normal units. The things is, the Successor kingdoms, and Bactria, used greek mercenaries to a great extent to a point that they were an integral part of their armies. There's not a single hellenic army post-Alexander thet did not use a great number of greek mercenaries, including thureophoroi's, thorakitai's, peltasts, etc.

[b257]

Ah, I get it now, I feel a little silly thinking that

[The Sloth]

Here is a small idea about Carthage: how about allowing them to recruit mercenaries from their ports? This would be a way to simulate Carthage sending reinforcements from other areas, and might help the AI defend its remote settlements. Because if Carthage needs to recruit all its troops in or around Carthage itself, the AI probably won't be able to handle it.
But I also admit that it's quite a large stretch, since you could even recruit those units when your port is blockaded, for instance.

The same method might work out for some greek mercenaries, like Cretan archers.

[Mausolos of Caria]

I'm not the expert for the game mechanics, but I like the general idea. On RTR VII it always bugged me that you would have Iberian infantry, Balearic slingers and Libyan spearmen on Sicily at the start, but none of them could be recruited or filled up with new men on the island again, so you would need 20 turns or more to send them back to their recruitment grounds, fill them up, and send them back.

[Jubal]

I like the Sloth's idea - and actually it still makes some sense, given that even if a port is blockaded, if it's not besieged by land most coastal provinces would have had secondary ports; stopping high-volume and lucrative trade was possible, but stopping all ships getting into a wide province would have been extremely difficult. Naval blockades for military purposes could only really be done on small islands (as in the Athenian Empire on numerous occasions) or, most often, in conjunction with a siege.

[Bercor]

Well, it's not a problem. We can do it by having mercenaries recruitable in ports or in their own building. One way or another it's good.

[ahowl11]

It's an idea that I have had for awhile, and I think we should add it.

[Mausolos of Caria]

I spoke about this with my brother, and he pointed out that we should put long recruitment times for those mercenaries that come from far abroad, to simulate the travel time. For example, one has the region of Lilybaion:

Mercenaries available in field (the old vanilla recruitment of mercenaries):

Local mercenaries= Greek hoplites, Sicel troops (e.g. peltasts)

Mercenaries available in your port:

- Libyan Spearmen- 2 Turns (since Libya is nearby)
- Ligurian Warriors- 3 Turns
- Balearic Slingers- 4 Turns
- Iberian Scutarii - 5 Turns

[ahowl11]

I think that is also a good idea

[b257]

Sounds great, though they will likely have to be pretty decent if a player is going to spend gold to recruit them given their recruitment time.

[Mausolos of Caria]

Obviously it would be different in every area. But if you need slingers on Sicily, even though there are no Slingers to recruit on Sicily itself, you can get them from the Baleareas by recruiting them in your part. Or maybe in Spain there aren't good skirmishers available, so you could go and recruit skirmishers from Africa or Sicily at your port.

I hope that sounded less complicated than it seems to me.

[ahowl11]

Sounds fine to me.

One last thing for the Hellenic Kingdoms. Isn't is possible that both Cyrene and Pergamum had an Agema unit? Yes we have Agema Phalangites, but I am talking about a hoplite unit similar to the Chaeonian Agema. I guess we could just give them Pergamene Hoplites and Cyrenian Hoplites?

Okay now to the Greek Cities and Greek States.

Missile Troops
Skirmishers
Slingers
Archers
Peltasts
Gastaphretes *Syracuse Only?

Infantry
Hoplites
Thureophoroi
Thorakitai
Phalangites

City Hoplites?
Athenian Hoplites
Spartan Hoplites
Corinthian Hoplites
Syracusan Hoplites
Massilian Hoplites
Bosporan Hoplites
Byzantine Hoplites

Cavalry
Hippakontistai
Hippeis
Xystophoroi

Any other ideas?

[Bercor]

Seems good. I like the ideia of the city especific hoplite as an elite unit. Does Crete belong to GC or GS? Because if it does, and it seems it does, then Gortyn should be able to recruit Cretan archers. Ah, also Rhodian slingers in Rhodes.

I'm against Gastaphretes - for present and future record.

[ahowl11]

Crete may start out as a Rebel city, just ask Mausolos about the chaos that was going on there. Cretan Archers I think was a term given to Mercenary Greek archers, although I am not sure about Rhodian Slingers.

[Bercor]

Yeah, but, strange enough, most of them were actually from Krete. It's only natural that the only city in the island can get acess to them. The same goes to Rhodian slingers. But, if Gortyn belongs to the independent peoples, why the Creten hoplites?