Author Topic: Discussion: New Faction Units  (Read 59034 times)

Mausolos of Caria

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 358
  • Karma: 7
  • RTR Project Historian
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #210 on: March 10, 2014, 04:09:52 PM »
That's a bit Pseudo- Greek  :P But it's true that a guy called Mithridates founded it and another guy called Mithridates was their most famous king.
''I found a city of bricks and left a city of marble''

Augustus

ahowl11

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1214
  • Karma: 16
  • RTR Project
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #211 on: March 10, 2014, 04:55:00 PM »
What did I screw up?

Also if we name Pontus that we need to name the other Dynasties that as well.

As for African Infantry, we would need to change his face.
God, Family, Baseball, Friends, Rome Total War, and Exilian. What more could I possibly need?

Bercor

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #212 on: March 10, 2014, 05:04:52 PM »
Well, we already name the Successor kingdoms by dynasties, why should Pontus be an exception?

Yes, the face would need to be changed, but it's easier than creating a new unit altogether.

ahowl11

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1214
  • Karma: 16
  • RTR Project
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #213 on: March 10, 2014, 05:08:41 PM »
So then what would Armenia be? The Orontid Kingdom? And Parthia? They should start off as the Parni in 280 BC
God, Family, Baseball, Friends, Rome Total War, and Exilian. What more could I possibly need?

Bercor

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #214 on: March 10, 2014, 05:21:57 PM »
Armenia should be called either Mets Hayk, which means "Greater Armenia" and was the name that it would have been called in Antiquity, or Orontid Kingdom. ;D

ahowl11

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1214
  • Karma: 16
  • RTR Project
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #215 on: March 10, 2014, 05:36:52 PM »
Orontid Kingdom it is. I don't like getting crazy with the language :) I am liking that African Infantry unit. His face needs to be swapped though. It's not too hard, just take the Numidian Javelinmen's face and put it on the African Infantry.
God, Family, Baseball, Friends, Rome Total War, and Exilian. What more could I possibly need?

Bercor

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #216 on: March 10, 2014, 05:51:41 PM »
Yeah, one of the skinners can do it pretty easily.

Mausolos of Caria

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 358
  • Karma: 7
  • RTR Project Historian
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #217 on: March 10, 2014, 06:10:26 PM »
What's wrong with the face?

I don't know, Kingdom of Armenia would be okay as well. In difference to the other hellenistic state they actually ruled a territory with one people, after all, and not a great variety like the Ptolemies or Seleucids, who were also Graeco- Macedonian foreigners. Perhaps Pontos is similar... sure, both were ruled by Persian families, we also shouldn't over-do historic names like these.

As for screwing up, in the opening post the Pontic roster has this under ''cavalry'':

Armenian Heavy Cavalry
Perso


Perhaps because I wrote ''Perso- Cappadocian noble cavalry'' you thought the second part would be the description ;) I know that happens when one has to do several things at a time ;) But the unit shouldn't be called ''Perso''  ;D
''I found a city of bricks and left a city of marble''

Augustus

ahowl11

  • Moderator
  • Posts: 1214
  • Karma: 16
  • RTR Project
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #218 on: March 10, 2014, 06:16:12 PM »
It's a face that does not match the look we are trying to get.
Fixed the screw up
God, Family, Baseball, Friends, Rome Total War, and Exilian. What more could I possibly need?

Tekowiāt

  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #219 on: March 10, 2014, 09:55:23 PM »
Thanks Mausolos, I forgot to ask to ask you about those units. Well, I'd leave the 'Perso' out of the name, since AFAIK there's no 'Graeco-Cappadocians' or similar as to need particular distinction, at least not in this period. Also 'Anatolian Infantry' wouldn't be the same to 'Pontic Spearmen', it'd be both an AoR unit there and a core Pontic unit fighting in the Anatolian fashion, maybe skirmishers with good melee skills. Likewise the 'Iranian Infantry' would be strong, lightweight infantry, probably also armed with javelins. However, they'll fight as Takabara. In fact, despite every single mod adding Sparabara in, I have reasons to believe that kind of tactic went all but extinct after the phalanxes became commonplace. By the way are you sure the 'Armenian Heavy Cavalry' should be a core unit for Pontus, if an avaliable unit at all?

Also, as Bercor said I agree on using a 'd', it does match with all but one Hellenistic kingdom name (And it's the way I found it). However, I prefer MithrAdates to MithrIdates. The Greeks may have used the latter more, but the former is closer to the original Iranian Mithradāta.

Lastly, your approach to using English-only names makes it all easier to sort out. I'd say dynastic names fit when the political entity is defined by the ruling dynasty itself, as is the case with the diadochi. When it's the opposite, like a state ruled by a particular people, as Mausolos said, where the dynasty may change and the polity doesn't, then it should be the country's name, which is the case for both the Kingdom of Armenia and the Parthian Empire/Confederacy.

EDIT: On a second thought, It doesn't apply to the Parthians. There was constant conflict among the clans and in the end it was them who chose the ruler, so the possibility of a dynasty change could well happen in-game. In reality, however, no one displaced the Arsacids as the ruling family. So 'Arsacid Confederacy' may be better. It does also link their Aparna origins in the beginning with their later status as an Empire.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 10:38:15 PM by Tekowiāt »

Bercor

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #220 on: March 10, 2014, 10:08:21 PM »

Tekowiāt

  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #221 on: March 10, 2014, 10:38:39 PM »
Wait, what?

Bercor

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 573
  • Karma: 10
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #222 on: March 10, 2014, 10:42:31 PM »
Just kidding. It's actually a compliment to your historical knowledge.

Mausolos of Caria

  • Citizens
    Voting Member
  • Posts: 358
  • Karma: 7
  • RTR Project Historian
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #223 on: March 10, 2014, 10:44:29 PM »
Yes that sounds very good, Tekowiāt   :)

You are right about Mithradates being the original name and we can use that if you want. Didn't Takabara also fight with axes? They would indeed be a good unit then and also add diversity.

The Armenian cavalry was always among the forces of Mithridates VI Eupator (the Greek form here because of the sobriquet) and I think I suggested them only as a reform units as well (?). Probably Tigranes the Great gave him a contingent of his forces as part of their alliance, but that's just what I personally suppose, to be honest.
''I found a city of bricks and left a city of marble''

Augustus

Tekowiāt

  • Posts: 15
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #224 on: March 11, 2014, 12:08:24 AM »
Haha, thank you both :)

Regarding Takabara, the tribes of North Iran such as the Hyrcanians usually fought as axemen, where the sagaris was very common. This may be a separate unit from the spear Takabara avaliable only as AoR, but I'm not sure yet. And the 'Armenian Heavy Cavalry' should definitely be post-reform. They were crucial in the Armenian armies and among the best cavalry around, but this is by the times of Arsacid dominion. Before that, the army had to resemble Achaemenid past more than anything else, that's what I can say for now. Also, based on what you say Mausolos, shouldn't they be AoR for anyone besides Armenia?