Faction Reforms

[Mausolos of Caria]

Here is our thread for all faction's reforms. I will start with this opening post to summarize what we should put down for every faction and then we can speak about all factions, one after the other since it would be too much stuff for a single post, apart from the fact that I can't say this for all factions. So what do we need?

1. Timeframe- when did the Reforms happen?

2. Which new units should the faction get with the reforms?

3. Possible other changes? (Armour, costs, recruitment methods, whatever)

For 1. we should discuss how this is going to be represented in the game. I think ahowl already commented on this for the Romans, but I can't find it right now so please post on this here. It would probably be difficult to script implementation of reforms at certain turns in the campaign, referring to the historical dates.

So let's go.

[Bercor]

As far as I know, the only way to implement reforms is through a script (except the Marian reforms, there's an vanilla event for that), so it won't be that difficult to set a date of reform, provided that we have the script.

[Mausolos of Caria]

I'll just start with our Syrian friends:

THE SELEUCID EMPIRE


Time of reform: About 200 BC


Reform units:

Lonchophoroi- Mounted javelinmen with an effective melee spear

Neocretans

Thorakitai

Perhaps Cataphracts? Perhaps xeofox knows more about their introduction.


@ Bercor  Yeah true, I hope we can get those scripts then. Is it also possible to have two reform events? Neocretans and Thorakitai already came into use by 220 BC, but the Lonchophoroi don't appear before 200 BC. But I would understand if that would be either impossible or too complicated, in that case we might just put them together in one reform since the difference was ''only'' about two decades.

[Bercor]

Well, EB's team had, at least, 3 reforms for the Romans, so I guess it is very possible, and not very difficult to someone that knows their scripting.

[Mausolos of Caria]

Very well then.


THE PTOLEMAIC EMPIRE


Time of reform: About 220 BC


New Units:

Neocretan archers

Libyan Phalanx (AoR West of Alexandria)

Machimoi Phalangites (AoR Egypt)

Machimoi Cavalry (AoR Egypt)

Epilektoi (Elite Machimoi Infantry) (AoR Egypt)


This post looks little, but it was actually a lot of digging, believe me!

[Bercor]

What do you reckon should be the visual and stat differences between Neocretan Archer and Cretan Archers?

[Mausolos of Caria]

Very good question. I think Cretan archers should still be slightly better, since skirmishing was the way of life for many Cretans, while the Neocretans were just normal soldiers trained in their style. Trained very well, for sure, but it can't make up the experience of a whole (albeit young) life.

As for the visual differences, that might be more difficult. After all, our sources even state that they used the same distinctive Cretan hats. I did some research on the internet including PDFs and google books, but the best thing I found was a review criticising an author for not drawing a line between Cretan and Neocretan archers, but he also fails to explain the difference himself 

[Bercor]

Ultimately, they can have a small texture and stats difference.

[b257]

change of armor perhaps? Give Neocretans maille and a helmet?

[Mausolos of Caria]

Mmh yeah maille would be possible. It seems almost impossible to find out their exact equipment, but I read that they also used the Cretan hats, so we should keep them.

[ahowl11]

Good discussion all!

[Jubal]

Also Cretan hats are very snazzy indeed

[Tom]

I think style is a huge factor in the design of a mod such as this

[Fëanáro]

Europa Barbarorum had a very good Reform system. For example, when playing as the Seleucids and you lost against a Cataphract-using army, Cataphract reforms would activate. Would it be possible to have something similar?

[Bercor]

Everything is possible with the right scripts (ok, not everything, but that is).