Author Topic: The US Presidential Election 2016  (Read 25471 times)

comrade_general

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #120 on: July 06, 2016, 10:43:31 PM »
There's nothing I can say that you'll listen to. Even if Clinton killed someone on live tv she would still have a cult following. It's literal government corruption on live tv and to the liberals she's as innocent as a newborn.

Jubal

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #121 on: July 06, 2016, 11:34:22 PM »
Well, now you know how I feel about the fact you're seriously considering voting for someone who is, and I can't be bothered to pull my punches any more here, skirting pretty damn close to fascism in his policy proposals.

I don't think Clinton's remotely "innocent", a large percentage of the US establishment reeks of corruption, but the US electoral system coupled with the Republicans picking Trump has people like me, who honestly aren't Clinton's natural base, backed right into a corner. Trump clearly has no concept of civil liberties; he has advocated during this election campaign for the use of torture, mass deportations, state seizures of private property to support the very rich, profiling, mass surveillance, an end to religious freedoms on an arbitrary executive basis, and nuclear proliferation just as a starting list. He's also shown no signs of being any more competent than Clinton (which is in itself damning given the competence levels she's shown), especially considering the number of business bankruptcies and fraud-related cases he's been involved in and the fact that his economic policies and major spending pledges simply don't mathematically add up. I accept that there's a case against Clinton, and it's in some ways quite a strong one, but the case against Trump is from my perspective considerably stronger on the grounds that he's also corrupt as hell and his policies are awful, unpleasant, and unconstitutional. I'm all for taking the establishment down a peg, but replacing them with one particularly awful member of that establishment is hardly going to achieve that.

Thus we remain at an impasse. :P
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comrade_general

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #122 on: July 06, 2016, 11:45:02 PM »
Trump's not going to be running the show by himself. He'll have guides who know how things work. He'll at least be trying to do things for us Americans and our veterans. Not making us feel less important than people in a foreign country as he put it. Clinton will continue the Obama policies that have not done us a bit of good and has divided this country.

Clinton was essentially declared incompetent by the FBI. But saying that she's still a good candidate because the FBI decided, or was blocked, to indict her is like saying OJ would make a good babysitter because he was found innocent.

Trump wants to get people working again. Clinton just wants to give away free money. Free fish. Trump wants to get people fishing again.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 12:34:07 PM by comrade_general »

Pentagathus

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #123 on: November 14, 2016, 08:40:01 PM »
I think Trump won.

comrade_general

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2016, 09:32:50 PM »
Yup.

Jubal

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #125 on: November 14, 2016, 10:09:59 PM »
Can confirm. Second time in our lifetimes that the winner actually got fewer votes than the loser, though I guess that's just the system over there.

Next year we get to see this game played by a whole bunch of major European countries instead all getting the chance to vote for their own demagogues, so that'll be fun. If Marine Le Pen wins in France we may be looking to Donald Trump and Theresa May as the "liberal" voices on the UN Security Council.

Detailed thoughts, feel free to tl;dr these -

The next couple of years will be interesting from a US perspective. The Supreme Court is probably the biggest issue - if Trump appoints ultra-conservative justices, and assuming the Republicans continue not to do their job and ratify Obama's nominee (they're meant to be there to block massively biased or incompetent nominees, and they're instead blocking an overqualified moderate in the hope they can get their own guy on after Trump gets in) then it only needs one of the two elderly liberals (Ruth Bader Ginsburg, 83, or Steven Breyer, 78) to die and the court becomes massively conservative, which would probably deepen a lot of the social divisions between blue and red states by kicking issues like the legality of marriage equality and abortion back to being state-level decisions. Trump has said he doesn't really want to overturn marriage equality, but he does still apparently want to overturn Roe v. Wade, the SCOTUS decision that legalised abortion in all states.

In other areas, I suspect that Trump will try and "take action on immigration" which will cost many, many billions and do absolutely bugger all beyond make a few people's lives armadillotier. I'm very worried about what he'll do on climate change targets, especially given literally none of his advisors seem to think energy efficiency is worth doing (which is dumb; even if you believe global warming is a hoax, which is a silly position to start with, getting less reliant on fossil fuels is a long term no-brainer simply from an economic competitiveness standpoint). I think he'll back down on things like NATO and will be railroaded into a fairly status quo foreign policy strategy. Trade could be more interesting, but again I think his advisors may be bright enough to stop him entering trade wars. The thing that seems to have most gone out the window is being "anti-establishment" and "draining the swamp", given that literally the most insider-y insider in the GOP, head of the RNC Reince Priebus, has just been appointed as his chief of staff. Also his transition team is basically comprised of corporate lobbyists so far.

Short of a Dem landslide in 2018, and even with that as the Dems have to play a lot of defence in the 2018 senate races and the house is rigged to hell, he also may well have both houses of Congress with his party for a full four years, which will be unusual for a modern president. How well Trump will get on with the GOP remains to be seen - the appointment of Priebus may indicate that he's actually going to more or less let their insiders run things, though I may be wrong.
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Pentagathus

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #126 on: November 14, 2016, 10:48:19 PM »
I think it will be all right. All far right. Ayyyyy lmao.
But seriously though I don't reckon much is going to change, it sounds like the judges he'll appoint will likely be his only real legacy. And that could be quite a armadilloer of a legacy to be fair considering the support he got from the Christian crazies. Could be a refreshing change to foreign policy though (ie less warmongering).

Jubal

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #127 on: November 14, 2016, 10:56:51 PM »
I think we need to wait and see how the change to foreign policy works out. Less bombing armadillo might be good, but allowing Putin or China a free hand to wreck armadillo up in their backyards could be very distinctly un-good and ripping up international trade deals could well be really rather bad. My suspicion is that on most aspects of geopolitics Trump will buckle and let the military keep doing their thing just as they're doing at the moment. Obama had a lot to say about foreign affairs before he took office but basically ended up implementing a slightly less armadilloty version of Bush's international policies. The military have a huge amount of influence and I don't think Trump will want to butt heads with them too much.
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comrade_general

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Re: The US Presidential Election 2016
« Reply #128 on: June 05, 2018, 04:25:03 AM »
Can confirm. Second time in our lifetimes that the winner actually got fewer votes than the loser, though I guess that's just the system over there.

A true republic :')