Author Topic: next release suggestions warsword  (Read 12096 times)

Del

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next release suggestions warsword
« on: December 26, 2009, 03:28:56 PM »
what would you like to see or changed in the next release of the warsword mod ?
any suggestions welcome .

Silver Wolf

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« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2009, 04:09:39 PM »
Hmm... I think that you should improve the quality of some models and add a few lods... I could help you with that if I find some spare time...
"Less of a young professional - more of an ancient amateur. But frankly, I'm an absolute dream."

Cholio

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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2009, 11:30:54 PM »
Well i would love to see a map.

Silver Wolf

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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 09:11:42 PM »
I've seen that you're using a few items from my resource pack and I've noticed that you've missed a mace called "Warhammer_mace2H"

This picture was my inspiration :

Spoiler: click to toggle

« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 09:12:49 PM by Silver Wolf »
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Ampz

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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2010, 10:24:25 AM »
kingdom management :D

fiddlestix

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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 06:50:26 AM »
So excited about the start of this mod! Thanks Del.

There has been some good feedback about nice features to add to the game. I'm sure you had plans for all that stuff anyway, so I wanted to talk about troop balancing.

Not sure how familiar you are with the tabletop game, but wanted to throw in some ideas on how to keep the army style "authentic".

I'm thinking it could be a matter of converting the 'stats' from the tabletop game to the stats of the troops. Example: WS(weapon skill) BS(ballistic skill) S(trength) T(oughness) etc.

After checking some of the already existing troops from native, I'm thinking somewhere around 30-40pts of a weapon proficiency from M&B would be about 1pt of WS or BS from warhammer. Only messing with the wood elves, it seems to work pretty well, although with them they have special rules for their archery so I had to fudge it a bit.

Also things like armor. I'm thinking somewhere around 20 armor in M&B = +1 armor in warhammer. So light armor maybe a lil over 20, heavy armor around 40, and the full plate of the empire would be closing in on 60 like lordly plate from native. Or maybe it should be more like 30-45-60.

Then we have movement speed. Movement of humans is 4, elves 5, and some skaven are even 6! You can get respective increases by playing with agility and athletics.

And the mounts. Sorry to say it, but I think you overkilled the cold ones lol  :$
They have movement 7 as well as the boars, so boar and cold one should share similar speeds, which should only be a bit more than certain very fast skaven units! However, the charge of the cold one is about right, but the boar should possibly get an even bigger boost (tusk charge rule). And elven steeds should be the fastest thing you are going to find around. Fast Cavalry special rule could come in the form of very high riding ability as well as very high maneuverability of a specific steed assigned as fast cav.

Also, trying to give it a more authentic feel beyond just stat points. Example, taking the "Forest Guard" and turning them into "Eternal Guard" from the actual wood elf rulebook. I think it involved giving them only an elven spear and upping their wep proficiency a fair bit. Dropping the shield made them very vulnerable to ranged attacks, but in a way this is a good thing. It makes you play them more like you would on the tabletop! You now have a reason to employ some more advanced tacs and screen them with some Glade Guard  :P  or use terrain to your advantage to avoid archer fire.

And the dirty horrible skaven  -_- lol you did good work on them, but I'm wondering if there is a way to balance them to have more the feel of the ranged troops from the books. Jazziels, tone down accuracy but greatly increase damage. Ratlings, extreme rate of fire, low accuracy. Problem with this is, it leaves them open to run out of ammo before you even get close enough to their lines for their shots to be effective since AI is retarded. Not sure if there is a work around. Maybe just giving them tons of ammo?

Anyway, just some ideas to work with that I think could make it more satisfying to a warhammer player. I will test things alot more and give more feedback on what I find.

Again, thanks for this mod!

(Added another idea) Forgive me because for all I know you already did this, but if there is a way to make the lords of a race/faction/army/whatever to diversify. Like some lords tend to go range heavy, some melee infantry heavy, some cav heavy, some an even mix, etc. That would not only give alot of variety in fighting the AI, but it would give each lord more character too  ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 11:01:51 AM by fiddlestix »

fiddlestix

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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 02:54:22 AM »
Alright I tinkered around with some things but I didn't get too far. Just played with wood elves basically, because with no modder experience, I had to start a new game, recruit, run around and find a properly sized enemy force of the right kind of opponent, fight the battle, then go back and make adjustments and start it all over again  :'( kinda blew. But it did give me some decent ideas to work with.

In addition to what I stated before, I found that "glade guard" and other spear and shield troops were horribly worthless. Horribly. This is by no means your fault, it is game mechanics. If the spear is long, you can use it to lance on horseback and to jab down cav on foot, but you are fully screwed when fighting other infantry. Too short, and you are just screwed period.

For one fix, by playing with the primary/secondary of the weapon stats, I think you can get a troop to carry both a spear and a sword. I'm just not sure they are smart enough to use them in the right circumstances however. But to try to get them to work, I even went as far as allowing troops to swing certain spears while carrying a shield. It looks kinda dumb, but it was the only way to make them remotely effective. This way, they can still defend themselves from infantry even with longer spears. They still are weak though.

When it comes to troops with additional attacks or higher initiative, most of that is going to come from items rather than the stats. I have looked into dual wielding for M&B as I'm sure you have as well, and it just isn't really possible from the discussions I've seen on the forums. However, you can kinda give the 'feel' of a troop with two attacks by playing with the weapon speeds. For example, for my own poorly done version of a wardancer and for the "eternal guards" i made, I found making a sword and a spear exclusive to these two that had a speed rating of 150, this did a good job of giving the multiple attacks, high Initiative feel. If you go much higher than this, it starts jacking up the damage and starts becoming extremely weak. But seeing a wardancer without crazy hair and only a single weapon was depressing. For the eternal guard, it was rather satisfying results-wise.

For any single attack troops, giving slightly higher or lower speed to a weapon specifically for that "initiative" bracket did well to see who usually got the first strikes in a way that more accurately portrayed the warhammer world.

As for the horseys, I made changes which reflected more with my previous post. Pistoliers were given "Hunter" horses, due to the high maneuverability, as well as adding a bit of speed. I hocked up the courser horse to a whopping speed 48 and maneuver in the low 40's. In all honesty, it seemed to give the right feel and didn't seem out of line for a fast cav elven steed  :)

For Movement 5 troops, they got athletics 10. Toughness 4 troops, Iron Skin/Flesh 10. Strength 4 troops, power strike 10. All "typical" stat troops, like strength/toughness 3, movement 4, etc would get few to no points in these fields. It seemed about right. Also played around with troop trees a bit but not too sure how great that turned out anyway.

Oh and here is a post I found with alot of really handy links to what look like great kits/additions:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,78411.msg2032612.html#msg2032612

Unfortunately, in my complete absence of modding experience, I couldn't get a single one to work for me  :(  but if you can figure them out and incorporate them, several of them would be fantastic for this mod.

I can only hope that at least a bit of my input was useful, and if not, sorry for eating up your bandwidth  :$

Del

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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 01:13:01 PM »
fiddlestix your input is very useful to me and thank you for taking the time and effort to post.

All input is taken on board it is good to hear from the players of the mod.


Del.

Korash_Shadowheart

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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 02:18:35 PM »
So.. At first I wanna say "hello" to everybody and "Brilliant work" to the modders of Warsword!

Okay I have some things mainly 'bout the Darkelven, because I'am a Tabletop player and - omg who would have expected - I play Darkelf. I'am german so it may be, that some of the troop names are incorrect, cause I don't know all of them in English.

When I downloaded the Game and played a litte around the first thing I noticed was the Darkelf Crossbow.
I changed the stats a little. Because the Druchii have a very special kind of Crossbow. The Repetier-Crossbow (also I don't know if it is called like this in English :-P) wich has a Magazin of ten Bolts, wich can be fired without "reloading". So I set the maximum amount of Ammo to 5 (10 seemed too heavy to me) and decreased the damage.
also Druchii crossbows, are often used be the light Cavalry, so I made them usable by Horse and gave them too the Horseman - not guaranteed.

The Warriors: They are just not existing in the Darkelfen Army. There part is taken by the Corsairs. Ofcourse they are dual wielding. So Fiddlestix's Idea should also work for them. I thought of creating a shield, wich just looks like a Sword... Moddeling is not my strenght at all *g*
Same for the witch elf's  at the Tabletop, they are my favorits, And they really can bring fear to the heart of men.

Coldones: I think you should change 2 things. 1.) fiddlestix is right, they are overpowered if you look at the tabletop stats. BUT: I think they are just underpowered in tabletop stats. - They have been way stronger before. So I just think you should make them very rare. Just the real nobles of the Darkelven society mount them, because taming one can cost your life. My Idea:
exclude them from the Unit-tree and make them hireable in Citys.
2.) There are too Moddels for the tabletop (the old ones, wich look more like a raptor and the new ones, wich are looking more heavy) So maybe you could also create two kinds of coldones. A small and quick kind and a heavy, but slower kind.

In the darkelven Army there is also an other Important part: the Shadows / assasins quick, deadly killers. I created them.
Just giving them light armor, a sword and a modified crossbow and an extreme Agillity and athletic. Also very high weapon skills.

Oh yeah and I nearly increased all Darkelven / woodelven stats so they are stronger but at least you have less in numbers.

One time I fought an Orc player in WHF Tabletop an he used 2,5 meters of the table for his units and I used a half. 2000 points army ;-)
So that's it at first. I hope it helps a little in pimping the good old Druchii.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 08:40:34 AM by Korash_Shadowheart »

Del

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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2010, 02:31:05 PM »
Thanks Korash_Shadowheart for the comments , I will more than likely reorganise all factions for the next release so they follow the army books more .
If anyone has any ideas on troop trees for any of the factions let me know .

Thanks, Del

Jubal

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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2010, 01:29:41 PM »
I've written most of my review now - many thanks for letting me see the closed mod version.

Do you want to see the review before it goes out?
The duke, the wanderer, the philosopher, the mariner, the warrior, the strategist, the storyteller, the wizard, the wayfarer...

Del

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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2010, 03:07:08 PM »
yes if you dont mind , only so I can be nosey . lol.

Korash_Shadowheart

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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 10:02:04 PM »
So here are some screenies of my first scene making experience....

A darkelf castle
Spoiler: click to toggle


And a woodelf village
Spoiler: click to toggle


more to come soon...
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 10:17:49 PM by Korash_Shadowheart »

Del

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2010, 11:36:23 PM »
Good work Korash Shadowheart  :)
Did you get that PM I sent You the other day if so Let me know , Del

Korash_Shadowheart

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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 07:16:33 AM »
thx.
No I didn't....

here I have a monument of Khaine, It is inspiered by the darkelf model of the Bloodcauldron...
Spoiler: click to toggle
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 07:55:41 AM by Korash_Shadowheart »