The US Presidential Election 2016

[comrade_general]

I'm voting for Trump. Mainly because the GOP is much more concerned that he might win and are doing way more to try and stop him than they are those things about anyone on the opposing side. I like him because he's not establishment, not a career politician, and doesn't take endorsements. He's just a businessman who genuinely loves our country with his own views (whether you agree with them or not).

[Jubal]

How is he "not establishment"? The guy's been right at the heart of public life for decades, he's donated to huge numbers of political campaigns and has been good friends with quite a lot of very senior politicians. I mean, unless you have to be a career politician to be part of the establishment in your eyes, but in that case you just repeated yourself. And what do you mean he doesn't take endorsements? He's taken endorsements from Chris Christie, Jeff Sessions, and Sarah Palin very publicly to name just three. Genuinely confused about that one.

I mean, I don't think he loves America either, I think he just loves Trump.

[comrade_general]

lol u mad?

[Jubal]

I'm just confused tbh.

[comrade_general]

I guess the word I wanted was campaign donations not endorsements. Establishment is the people who are considering things like nominating someone like Romney, who didn't even run this time, because they don't want Trump to run, even though he will win the nomination by votes. I really don't understand the hate he gets, except that everyone is afraid of him; GOP, Democrats, all the liberal media and even Fox News. And that's why I like him.

[Jubal]

Practically nobody except a couple media pundits are planning that, so your "establishment" is kinda small? Anyway the strong likelihood is that there will be floor rules that prevent anyone who hasn't won any states getting onto the ballot, like was the case in 2012. The GOP's system is working out very well for Trump in any case, he's gained less than 40% of the vote and he's still in a pretty commanding position; he'll be an unusually weak primary winner in terms of vote %, even if he avoids a contested convention. The idea that the system is horribly rigged against him is bullarmadillo, he's doing considerably better than he should be doing given how many votes he has.

I'm really not sure how everyone being afraid of someone is automatically a good thing. Everyone's also afraid of ISIS, and their houses burning down, and venomous snakes, but those don't make good Presidential candidates as a result.

As to why people hate him, it depends from person to person. For some people it's just that he lies repeatedly (Politifact rated 75% of his statements that they checked as mostly or wholly false, higher than any other candidate), other people don't like the way he talks about his family like property and has implied several times that he'd quite like to date his daughter, other people don't like the fact that he'd introduce a bunch of laws that would discriminate against Muslim-Americans, or that he's said he wants to bring back forms of torture that have been banned because they were inhumane and ineffective. There's the fact that he's advocated beating up even peaceful protesters at his rallies, too, which doesn't exactly show a commitment to free speech.

I feel you're pinning on him the hope that he'll be a tough guy who'll remove corruption, get people to pay their taxes, take the "establishment" down a peg, and make America feel stronger in the world... but there's no reason to think he's capable of that or even wants to.

[comrade_general]

ISIS? Really? You're comparing him to ISIS? That kind of sums up your argument right there.

Bashing my reasoning while failing to provide a viable alternative hasn't done anything to sway my opinion. I didn't come to debate I simply stated my intent and reasons for doing so. I would have appreciated a simple "fair snuffles" and nothing more (preferably nothing at all if you can't accept my free will), especially not an attack on my choices or use of political terminology. I don't follow politics so I'm not familiar with all the jargon.

There are plenty worse people out there and you know it. And you know which side they're on. And that's why you feel forbidden to say anything negative about them.

[Jubal]

Of course I wasn't comparing him to ISIS and that doesn't sum up my argument at all, I was pointing out that it's a logical issue with what you're saying, which it is. I wasn't trying to attack your terminology either, these words don't have technical definitions and I was trying to work out what you meant by the words you were using. Also the idea that I feel "forbidden" to say anything about anyone is just silly.

I won't say "fair snuffles" when it comes to Trump because I don't feel he is fair snuffles, I think he's a very dangerous and unpleasant guy, and that's my very deeply held opinion which I have as much right to state as you do. If I didn't accept your right to a free choice I wouldn't bother trying to talk to you about it, and if I didn't care about you or your country I wouldn't bother trying to talk to you about it. I'm sorry if you're upset by that, I apologise if I came over badly in the way I was saying things, and I won't say anything further on the matter if you'd rather I didn't.

[comrade_general]

Fair snuffles.

I'll probably be too lazy to actually go out and vote anyway.

[comrade_general]

The way I see it all those things I listed are more like ISIS and so naturally I would support something that ISIS is afraid of.

[Pentagathus]

Isn't trump a terrible businessman? I know his first business (which he started with that teeny little million dollar loan) went bankrupt, although I don't know much about his other business ventures.

[comrade_general]

He's still richer than any of us will ever be in our lives despite being bankrupt in the past. Also the US is so far in debt that bankruptcy is a moot point.

[Pentagathus]

Yeah but he inherited his wealth, as far as I know he hasn't actually made much money himself. So the idea that his business experience would make him a good economist doesn't seem to hold up. I mean the premise of that argument is probably flawed anyway.
Not that I've really played much attention to these candidates, just hoping you people don't elect an overly crazy one.

[comrade_general]

Ha! That hope died when Rand dropped out.

[Clockwork]

Not that I've been following it closely but isn't Kasich all right?