Gun Control

[Jubal]

Some countries have very loose gun control, others very tight. Which is better...?

(Continued from http://s9.zetaboards.com/exilian?topic=7211150/ to keep it out of a condolences thread)

[Silver Wolf]

Very tight I guess ... It should prevent at least some mass murders... Gun control is very tight in Croatia, and it works most of the time...

[Jubal]

It's pretty tight here, too, and shootings are very rare for us.

[Marcus]

I'm somewhat on the fence about gun control. On the one hand, it makes mass shootings less likely, but on the other hand, if someone wants to go kill a load of people, there are a multitude of different weapons they can use.

Even when gun control was looser in the UK, Hungerford was the first recorded massacre, and it happened in 1987. We've been using guns for centuries before then. Gun crime may be down, but it still happens. I've seen plenty of news reports about people who have been shot in gang wars, as well as those who were stabbed. If someone wants a handgun, they will get it.

It also screws things up for our olympic shooting team, who have to go to Switzerland 6 weeks a year so they can train. I believe the handgun restriction is going to be lifted for the shooting teams, though it would be interesting watching them walk through customs.
"I'm an olympic shooter, honest!" as 20 armed coppers prepare to shoot him if he does so much as move.

[Jubal]

But the fact is that shootings here are vastly, vastly lower than in the USA. I don't think loosening gun laws are worth the potential cost in life.

When someone flips enough to go out and kill people, they will often try and use whatever's to hand. If there isn't a gun to hand, they won't use a gun. Even if that means they try and kill someone with a knife, it's still far leass deadly than guns. As to Hungerford, semi-automatics hadn't been around for that long before then. We'd been using guns (and people had been being murdered with them, too) for centuries, but guns have got bnoth more powerful and (potentially) cheaper over time. Deaths by guns have dramatically dropped since my parents' childhood.

[DeepComet5581]

Although this year's statistics are going to screw up the averages.

[Jubal]

As an unrelated but interesting fact, did you know that suicide rates have always been consistently higher under Conservative governments as opposed to Labour ones in the past century?

[comrade_general]

But the fact is that shootings here are vastly, vastly lower than in the USA. I don't think loosening gun laws are worth the potential cost in life.

Your country is smaller than the state of New York so of course they are going to be vastly lower. You're just mad because we got our independence from you with help from our personal firearms.  

[Hopit]

its almost impossible to get  hand gun in Finland after 2 (or 3 didn't follow it that much) school shootings

[Jubal]

Actually, all things being equal, you'd expect the rates of all crimes to be higher than in the US per capita due to the higher population density. The overall crime rate (of all types) is slightly higher in the UK, partly for this reason. Nevertheless I'm talking per capita not in total, I'm not an utter stats dunce.

As for the firearm homicide rates (per 100,000 pop);
England & Wales; 0.12
USA; 2.97

That's a rate over twenty TIMES higher.

And to get the war out the way; I don't begrudge you the War of Independence, and had I been in the colonies at the time I'd probably have joined the rebels. For that matter I don't begrudge the rebels their weapons, but the fact is that you cannot use the arguments for weapon ownership used in the 18th century today - from an American's POV, the world is now less dangerous, governments have nothing like the levels of autocratic control they once did, and as a result firearms should no longer be necessary; if they were necessary, why do large numbers of Americans NOT carry guns?

[comrade_general]

The right to own firearms is sacred to us: its the second thing listed on our Bill of Rights for crying out loud. I'm not using the guns are necessary argument, but it will always be for damn sure our right to own them if we please. We should hold these rights as true and important today as they were when they were written. I think all of you will agree that our Constitution is as important today as it was in the beginning. More of us own firearms than you might think, and I can get up and live my life every day without a single thought or fear of being harmed by one.

Plus I think I've said something similar as this in the other gun argument; is that our views aren't compatible, you live where you live and I live where I live.

[Jubal]

I know our views aren't compatible, I still find sounding out how we justify our views to ourselves interesting.

But what about the higher firearm killing rate, school shootings etc? Do you just consider them a necessary evil for the importance of maintaining your right to have guns? My other question would be whether, since you essentially are following the idea of guns being symbolic and something you have a right to, you think other countries should loosen their gun laws (or whether you think that it's really just a US thing and other countries should keep tighter restrictions because it's not so important for them to have guns).

[comrade_general]

There will always be homicides and accidents regardless, and really it's the stabbings and car wrecks that I hear happening way more on the news every day. Of course it's a US thing, that was the point in my previous post. It's all about freedom. I'm not here to argue for other countries' laws, if they wish to deny their citizens the rights then so be it, I will stay here and enjoy mine. I just think outsiders constantly get the wrong idea about our second amendment.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."