Author Topic: Discussion: New Faction Units  (Read 59036 times)

ahowl11

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2014, 04:22:31 AM »
Hmm alright, thanks. I wish we had more detailed accounts on certain kingdoms. I'm going to say that Cyrene probably should have a unit roster similar to Egypt.

Bercor, could you dig into the Bactrian Army book and report what you find? I think we may have covered everything.

As for Thessalian and Paionian Cavalry they will be AOR so no need to add them yet.
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Bercor

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2014, 12:09:50 PM »
Yeah, I'll see to that.

Mausolos of Caria

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2014, 02:55:10 PM »
Well there is this issue with Kyrene & Pergamon... we start in 280 BC, right?
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Bercor

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2014, 02:59:22 PM »
That's what ahowl said, yes.

Mausolos of Caria

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2014, 03:31:59 PM »
Well, Philetairos seized control of Pergamon during the 280s, but he submitted his little fiefdom voluntarily to the Seleucids in 281 BC, following the death of Seleukos Nikator. Eumenes would later defeat Antiochos I at the battle of Sardes in 261 BC before Attalos I would name himself king after the battle of the Kaikos sources. So Pergamon became independent in 261 BC and became a kingdom in 233 BC, in 280 BC Philetairos was probably acting like a satrap for the Seleucids.

As for Kyrene, it was annected by the Ptolemies in the late 4th century. During the early 280s Magas, the half brother of the later Ptolemaios II, was appointed satrap of Kyrene after having defeated a five-year-revolt there. In 283 BC, upon the death of Ptolemaios I, he extended his independence. He would still serve the pharao loyally until 276 BC, when he rebelled against Ptolemaic rule and established an independent Kyrenian kingdom until his death in 250 BC (it was probably only fully subdued a few years later).

Plutarch mentions his usage of Greek (Peloponnesian) mercenaries. Apart from that, this excerpt from Pausanias 1, 7 seems to be the best source we've got:

Quote
7.
This Ptolemy fell in love with Arsinoe, his full sister, and married her, violating herein Macedonian custom, but following that of his Egyptian subjects. Secondly he put to death his brother Argaeus, who was, it is said, plotting against him; and he it was who brought down from Memphis the corpse of Alexander. He put to death another brother also, son of Eurydice, on discovering that he was creating disaffection among the Cyprians. Then Magas, the half-brother of Ptolemy, who had been entrusted with the governorship of Cyrene by his mother Berenice—she had borne him to Philip, a Macedonians but of no note and of lowly origin—induced the people of Cyrene to revolt from Ptolemy and marched against Egypt.

[2] Ptolemy fortified the entrance into Egypt and awaited the attack of the Cyrenians. But while on the march Magas was in formed that the Marmaridae,a tribe of Libyan nomads, had revolted, and thereupon fell back upon Cyrene. Ptolemy resolved to pursue, but was checked owing to the following circumstance. When he was preparing to meet the attack of Magas, he engaged mercenaries, including some four thousand Gauls. Discovering that they were plotting to seize Egypt, he led them through the river to a deserted island. There they perished at one another's hands or by famine.

[3] Magas, who was married to Apame, daughter of Antiochus, son of Seleucus, persuaded Antiochus to break the treaty which his father Seleucus had made with Ptolemy and to attack Egypt. When Antiochus resolved to attack, Ptolemy dispatched forces against all the subjects of Antiochus, freebooters to overrun the lands of the weaker, and an army to hold back the stronger, so that Antiochus never had an opportunity of attacking Egypt (...)

And Polyaenus:

Quote
[28]   Magas.

#  When Magas left Cyrene, to go on a foreign expedition, he left his friends in charge of the city. But he stored the missiles and other weapons of war in the fortress, and dismantled the walls; so that, if any revolution should be attempted in his absence, he should find it easy to re-enter the city on his return.

2   When Magas captured Paraetonium, he order the guards to kindle a "friendly" fire signal both in the evening, and early in the morning. By this deception, he advanced without resistance into the surrounding country, as far as the place that is called Chi.
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Bercor

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2014, 03:48:44 PM »
Uhm, the best way to simulate this seems to be through a script then.

ahowl11

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2014, 04:13:15 PM »
We could simulate some revolts if need be
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Bercor

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2014, 04:33:00 PM »
We could give that regions to the Seleucids and Ptolemies and then, through a script, make them revolt to the Hellenic Kingdoms in an certain date.

Mausolos of Caria

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2014, 04:39:52 PM »
I mean for Pergamon it isn't too problematic, we could just have the Hellenic states faction allied with the Seleucids at the start and then they can still break up with each other.

However this brings a problem with Kyrene, since at the start it should be a vassal to the Ptolemies like Pergamon would be to the Seleucids, and then rebel and ally with the Seleucids (if it declares war on Egypt and the Seleucids go to war with Egypt the AI would probably manage that on their own, though). It's just problematic because they are the same faction, so the Seleucids can't be allied with Kyrene and at war with Pergamon at the same time. I'm not sure what to do there, Bercor's idea seems like a good solution.

But back on topic this situation obviously means that they didn't have any different units as their Diadochoi lords. Perhaps Kyrene would deploy some Libyan units (like the mentioned Marmaridae) alongside their Greek mercenaries. As for Pergamon, we know of Celtic influences so they probably used the Thureos shield from very early on.
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ahowl11

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2014, 04:47:07 PM »
Sounds good to me. We just need to see Bercors results on Bactria before we call it good.
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Bercor

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2014, 10:06:13 PM »
Ok, from what I've read, Bactrian troops were pretty similar to Seleucids's (main phalangite corp with eastern and mercenaries auxilaries, accompanied by sarissa cavalry, Companion look-alike, and war elephants) with the diference that the former had cataphract horse archers (similar to Parthia but more hellenized) and indian troops. I guess the latter can be represented through an AOR, so I would suggest giving Bactria an unit called Bactrian Cataphract Horse Archers, an elite indo-greek hoplite (similar to EB's one) and some eastern troops.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 11:03:48 PM by Bercor »

Mausolos of Caria

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #101 on: February 21, 2014, 10:48:24 PM »
Sounds good. Some Indian troops will ad spice  ;)
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b257

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2014, 09:24:55 PM »
Did it mention anywhere that Greco-Baktrian's made use of units like Thorakitai and Thureophoroi or the thureos shield for that matter? Just wondering because from all the carvings and illustrations recovered from archaeological digs it seemed that they used round shields like the Clipeus and Aspis among others and I didn't find any mention of the units I mentioned in the books I read.

Bercor

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2014, 10:21:22 PM »
Did it mention anywhere that Greco-Baktrian's made use of units like Thorakitai and Thureophoroi or the thureos shield for that matter? Just wondering because from all the carvings and illustrations recovered from archaeological digs it seemed that they used round shields like the Clipeus and Aspis among others and I didn't find any mention of the units I mentioned in the books I read.

From what I could gather, they did use Thorikitai and Thureophoroi but only as mercenaries. Most local non-phalangite troops equipped in greek fashion used the circular hoplite shield.

b257

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Re: Discussion: New Faction Units
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2014, 03:12:06 AM »
Ah, I see, so If baktria is made into a swap faction should it only have access to thorakitai's and thureophoroi's as mercs rather than recruit them from settlements?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 03:59:55 AM by b257 »