Author Topic: Guys I need a hand,  (Read 6103 times)

Phoenixguard09

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Guys I need a hand,
« on: July 13, 2011, 01:23:55 PM »
Hey guys,

My mate DukeDev and I are working on a complete rehash of the Warhammer game, looking to fix the problems inherent in 7th Edition, re-balance the armies while adding a few more for completeness' sake. 

The issue?  We need a hand with ideas for several armies to make them unique. 

http://s4.zetaboards.com/Battlehammer/index/

The Lists board is for the discussion of the armies. Please post any suggestions there. 

Thanks in advance,
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Duke Dev

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 01:35:05 PM »
And we would like to pretend 8th never existed!
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Phoenixguard09

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 01:36:08 PM »
Too true. :P
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Jubal

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 10:04:33 PM »
Could I suggest that either CtA or Exilian hosts the project? I'm much more likely to be able to contribute if it doesn't mean I have to trawl a whole new site, and I'd love to add some feedback etc and make sure it integrates with other ideas of mine such as my campaign rules.
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Phoenixguard09

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 12:03:03 AM »
Well, as far as that goes, I'd have no problem with that, bar we need quite a bit of room.  I'll ask Dev what he thinks tonight. BTW thanks for the offer mate, I'm glad we can get your help.

And bugger, now I need to go have another look at your campaign rules. :D

So if anyone else is reading this, please feel free to put suggestion for units either here or on the other site.  Be warned I set it up in about 20 minutes flat, so if there are any problems with it, its my fault. :P
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Silver Wolf

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 12:07:53 AM »
I'm too tired to register, so I'll write my suggestions here : (mostly related to initiative and weapon types)

Always strike last rule should be removed from great weapons. Negative impact on initiative ( -2 initiative for example) should be enough. Always strike last should only be applied if user's initiative drops below 1 after equipping the weapon.
Charging an enemy should provide initiative boost.
Always strike first rule for mounted lancers on charge (reason : weapon length).
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Phoenixguard09

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 12:15:12 AM »
Thank you SilverWolf. You will be pleased to know that pretty much all of those suggestions have already been introduced, with spears and pikes giving an Initiative boost as well but only when charged meaning a unit of spears or pikes will strike at the same speed whether they charge or not.

Lances on the other hand will just be an Initiative boost, not ASF. 

Another thing, I like your idea with the great weapons only conferring ASL on a model with Initiative of less than 1.

Anyway thanks for that SilverWolf and please add more if you think of anything.

Everyone, this is your chance to make this the game you want.  Don't let the opportunity pass by.  Come on, dig deep!
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Silver Wolf

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 10:15:10 AM »
Lances on the other hand will just be an Initiative boost, not ASF. 

Will they still offer +2 strength on charge? That's also logical because of the momentum.

Shooting also needs a revamp. But I don't know what to suggest right now (I haven't played the 7th edition, but older editions might be helpful).
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Phoenixguard09

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 12:01:18 PM »
Yes they shall. As you say it is logical. 

As far as shooting goes we're looking at close range shooting conferring +1 to hit. 

Aside from that, not sure but we're gonna have a look. 
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Silver Wolf

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 12:10:25 PM »
What about forests? They're kind of silly right now.
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Phoenixguard09

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 11:58:28 PM »
Yet another thing changing.  The terrain chart will be an optional thing, as opposed to, yes, half the forests of the world want to eat you. :)

We have been browsing several forums and therefore have a decent idea of what the community wants with regards to the core rules. Its the armies themselves where we are having some issues. The fact is, in 7th several armies were just not viable, (Combat Dwarves, Tomb Kings to some extent, Ogres generally, Greenskins were often complained about) so we need to try and fix these. I've got a good idea for the Dwarves and Greenskins might be fixed too, but there is still issues for other armies.

So seriously guys, that is the most prominent need at the moment: New units for existing armies.
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Silver Wolf

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2011, 09:48:19 AM »
Dwarfs are bad?! I've never seen a dwarf loose a battle.
Greenskins, Ogres and Beastmen, on the other hand, need some love.
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Captain Carthage

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2011, 02:08:43 PM »
I wish to be involved in the Tomb King development process, it is relevant to my interests.
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Jubal

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2011, 07:16:44 PM »
Would you rather host it here or on CtA, Phoenix? You'd get more space on CtA I think, so I'd go for that. I think we should shift it ASAP to give you the minimum stuff to move, too.

I have a LOT of proposals, particularly on weapons & the human lists.

Shooting:
- Less accurate
- Far more multishot weapons - for a skilled archer a bow should be 2x or 3x multiple shots, the crossbow & handgun fire every other turn, everything should have the same moving/shooting rules. A well practised (say, elven) longbowman could fire six shots a minute, a crossbowman could never really do more than one.

CC:
- Pikes. PIKES, dammit. Multi ranks, +1S versus chargers with at least +2 and a panic or fear test against charging cavalry.

I'll expans more later.
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Phoenixguard09

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Re: Guys I need a hand,
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2011, 04:04:34 AM »
To SilverWolf: How many Dwarf lists have you seen that were based around combat? ;)  And you are right with regards to Beasts, I'd forgotten about them, but the new book has fixed them up a little. I'm still unhappy about some of the changes but at least they can win consistently now.

To NightAngel: Thanks mate, we don't have a TK player in our group so we could certainly use your aid. We're also doing a Barrow King list, which might tickle your fancy as well.

To Jubal: Um, for the sake of more activity, I think I'll go with CtA.  I'd like a full sub-board if that's ok. I figure if you could please give me moderator privileges for that particular sub-board I'll just get everything on there with the least amount of hassle for you or the other admins over there.

As to your suggestions: The shooting rules will be more-or-less the same as 7th. One of the worst things 8th did was remove guess-ranges for warmachines. That really pisses me off.  So warmachines will be less-accurate than in 8th, is that what you were suggesting, or do you mean less accurate than 7th?

Multishot weapons: I like this, but with a few changes. I'm having some sort of idea floating around for the amount of shots having something to do with Initiative. I'll get back to you on that.  Seeing as Initiative was mainly useless in 7th, one big thing we are trying to do is make it more important.

Pikes: Our current rules for pikes are as follows: Units armed with pikes may fight with two additional ranks in close combat. In close combat a unit armed with pikes also receives +2 to their Initiative value. 

We will consider the Strength bonus, but I do not think we will go with the Panic test against charging cavalry.  There are a few reasons for this:
1. Charging into a wall of pikes is just as scary for infantry as it is for cavalry.
2. There are several creatures in the Warhammer World that wouldn't care. Eg. Kislev Bears, Cold Ones, perhaps Orc Boars. Where does the rule stop?
3. A load of men extending pointy sticks at you is probably not as scary as having a horde of massive green monsters bearing down on you trying to devour you and tear you limb from limb.  If charging a unit of Orcs doesn't produce a Panic test, why should charging pikes?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, they're really helpful. Please keep 'em coming. :)
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