The Sub-Factions Project

[ahowl11]

I have been having some good conversations with Cincinnatus at TWC about sub factions for the Rebels and I have decided to make a project for it. I know the Rebels have this enabled when you highlight one of their cities:

Rebel City (Athenian Rebels) etc.

Now is it possible to make it this?

Rebel City (Athenians) etc.

Also is it possible to do this with other factions? For example:

Gallic Town (Aedui) etc
Greek City (Spartans) etc

Please let me know. I hope Cincinnatus registers here so we can begin work. Others are inclined to join as well.

So here is the format we will be using. I will use the Spartans for example:

Spartans

Sub-Faction to: Greeks
Settlments: Sparta
Unique Troops: Helot troops, Spartan Hoplites, etc
Significance: Was it's own Kingdom, went through reforms etc etc
Leaders: Kleomenes etc
Alternate Campaign: Yes
Goals: unify Greece, defeat Macedonians

Just kind of like a profile for each sub faction to help in the process of making them. It will also help with the map and the making of the AOR system as well as the alternate campaigns! I will wait for Cincinnatus to arrive before I begin. I will keep a log/list of factions completed

Here are the current cities. I will be going in order. They are subject to change.

Spoiler

Rome
Arretium
Caesena
Genua
Mediolanium
Patavium
Capua
Tarentum
Croton
Rhegium
Ancona
Felsina
Acerrae
Malventum

Sicily, Sardinia, Corsica:
Messana
Syracuse
Lilybaeum
Agrigentum
Caralis
Aleria

North Africa:
Carthage
Thapsus
Leptis
Cirta
Dimmidi
Nepte
Tingi
Capsa
Hadrumentum
Utica
Hippo
Volubilis
Iol
Garama

Iberia:
Bolskan
Mastia
Numantia
Asturica
Olisipo
Corduba
Saguntum
Emporion
Malaca
Ebusos
Gadir
Segobriva

Greece:
Sparta
Corinth
Athens
Thermon
Apollonia
Larissa
Thessalonica
Byzantium
Kydonia
Rhodes
Chalcis
Argos
Elis
Ambracia
Pella
Amphipolis
Dyrrhachium
Lysimachea

Asia Minor:
Nicomedia
Pergamum
Sardis
Halicarnassus
Ancyra
Sinope
Mazaka
Tarsus
Amasia
Amisus
Nicaea
Gordium
Smyrna
Heraclea
Side

Gaul:
Massalia
Narbo
Tolosa
Uxellodunum
Burdigala
Gergovia
Bibracte
Alesia
Durocortorum
Samarobriva
Condate
Cenabum

Illyria:
Scodra
Salonae
Emona
Siscia
Aquileia

Pannonia:
Aquincum
Noreia
Sirmium

Thrace:
Seutopolis
Odessus
Tomis
Istrus
Bizye

Moesia:
Serdica
Naissus

Scythia Minor:
Tyras
Olbia

Crimea:
Neapolis Scythica
Chersonesus
Panticapaeum

Scythia:
Tanais
Campus Scythii

Maeotis:
Gorgippa
Phanagoria

Dacia:
Drobeta
Buridava
Sarmizegusta

Germania:
Atuatuca
Coriovallum
Hafnia
Phabiranum
Tulisurgium
Rugium
Mattium

Eastern Europe:
Vicus Aestui
Vicus Venedae
Campus Heruli
Carrodunum
Leucaristus

Steppes (West of Caspian):
Campus Sarmatae
Campus Iazyges
Campus Roxolani
Campus Aorsi
Campus Alani
Campus Sakae
Campus Siracae

Caucasus:
Kotais
Dioscurias
Mtskheta
Albana

Armenia:
Armavir
Trapezus

Levant/Cyprus:
Salamis
Antioch
Laodicea
Damascus
Sidon
Tyre
Jerusalem
Palmyra
Bostra
Petra

Egypt:
Pelusium
Alexandria
Memphis
Thebes
Ptlemais Hermiou
Siwa
Cyrene
Meroe

Mesopatamia:
Edessa
Dura Europus
Seleucia
Babylon
Susa

Arabia:
Gerrha
Omana

Media:
Phraaspa
Ecbatana

Persia:
Zadracarta
Apamea
Hecatompylos
Gabae
Istakhr
Kangha
Marakanda
Merv
Bactra
Harmozia
Pura
Alexandropolis

Steppes (East of Caspian):
Nisa
Khiva
Campus Massagetae
Chighu
Kashgar
Campus Saka

India:
Taxila
Patala

[Cincinnatus]

I am here

[ahowl11]

Okay then! We shall start with Italy. Now every region has a rebel faction assigned to it, even if they are owned by a regular faction. So, we will start with the obvious in Rome.

Latins or Latin League
Settlement(s): Rome
Unique Troops: Latin Infantry(?) Socii troops
Significance: The Latins were successfully dealt with by Rome in 338 BC. Some of their towns were Romanized while others became partially Roman. During the Social War, they stayed loyal to Rome.
Leaders: N/A
Alternate Campaign: No

Really the question for these guys is did they exist? What Rebel faction will be present if the Romans are defeated or if Rome Revolts? I feel as if they are the logical choice. Thoughts?

[Jubal]

My belief is that it's impossible to subfaction any faction other than the rebels, though I don't have confirmation of that. Furthermore, AFAIK it's impossible to make rebel AIs expansionistic (aka a rebel subfaction is tied to particular provinces). I'd love to be proven wrong on both counts though.

[ahowl11]

Well I am really hoping that I can sub-faction the factions that were not necessarily united. If not, I won't make a big deal about it as they can still be represented by units and geographic location.

As far as the Rebel sub-factions are concerned, I know that they are not going to be expansionistic. If they could be I'd love to know how. My goal would be to make them similar to how they were in EB.

Also I will make it clear when we make certain sub factions to include the fact that there will be a provincial campaign for them, such as Sparta or the Suebi.

[Jubal]

I'm pretty sure you can't subfaction them, though you can do things like province-restricted buildings and recruitment which can go a long way towards simulating that I guess.

[ahowl11]

Yeah that's what I will plan on doing. We will see what happens.

Updated OP and Latin Post. Seems like the Latins will be the first sub-faction confirmed on this forum. My only other choice would have to be Roman Rebels or something. I will wait a little while before moving on to the next one just in case something changes.

[comrade_general]

Now is it possible to make it this?

Rebel City (Athenians) etc.

Also is it possible to do this with other factions? For example:

Gallic Town (Aedui) etc
Greek City (Spartans) etc

Just change their name in the rebel name file in the text folder.

[ahowl11]

Okay glad it's that simple!

[comrade_general]

There are a lot of unused rebel 'factions' listed in there that you can use if you need more options. You probably already know the rebel factions are specified in the descr_regions file.

[ahowl11]

Yes, I did know that. One thing though, it's not very difficult to add new rebel sub factions is it? I know that there is a tutorial about it on the org but if I remember correctly people still had issues

[comrade_general]

The easiest thing to do would be to use those extra rebel factions. Change their name in the text file and their units via the descr_rebel_factions file.

[ahowl11]

Alright then. I will definitely have to take a look at it when I get back home

[Cincinnatus]

Roman Rebels may work fairly well too.  Since Rome had a few rebellions or civil wars (Marc Anthony/Octavian, Sulla, Spartacus, Pompey/Ceasar).

[ahowl11]

I think Roman Rebels could be a different sub faction though. Maybe they would pop up when cities have low public order or something. I will stick to the Latins.

Now I will finish up the minor players in Italy:

Etruscans
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlements: Arretium
Unique Troops: Etruscan Hoplites (?)
Significance: Were barely hanging around at this point, and were located around Arretium. The Romans conquered Arretium in the late 4th centurey BC. The Etruscans were involved in the Third Samnite War which ended in 290 BC, and the Romans campaigned against them in the years after that. I believe the Etruscans were fully subdued sometime in the 260's BC. So my thought would be for maybe some scripted armies to appear now and then until a certain time period or maybe until a certain building is built in Arretium.
Alternate Campaign: No

Umbrians
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Ariminum
Unique Troops: Umbrian Hillmen (?)
Significance: Really they would pretty much be exactly as the Etruscans. Right now Ariminum is not a city. Instead it is Caesena. I don't know if Rome owned this city or not in 280.. My sources say Rome didn't take Ariminum until 268 BC. So we will have to see.
Alternate Campaign: No

Piceni
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Ancona
Unique Troops: Piceni Spearmen (?)
Significance: Not much is really known about them, except that they lived on the east coast of Italy where Ancona is. Would probably not appear much.
Alternate Campaign: No

Campanians
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Capua
Unique Troops: Campanian Hoplites (?) Campanian Cavalry (?)
Significance: I believe they were fully subdued by the Romans at this time as Capua was one of Rome's most important allied cities. Nonetheless they offer good AOR troops.
Alternate Campaign: No

Samnites
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Malventum
Unique Troops: Samnite Spearmen, Samnite Swordsmen (?)
Significance: Were finally subdued in 290 BC, but it's only ten years after that. I believe they could still be hostile, and maybe pop up if Pyrrhus is successful. They were major players in the Social War.
Alternate Campaign: No

*Lucanians, Bruttians, Messapians, Marsi
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlements: Varies. Essentially none, but the Lucanians could have Tarentum, Messapians Croton, and Bruttians Rhegium if given the oppurtunity maybe? Reason that I am not sure is the fact that Tarentum would be the Tarentines, and Croton and Rhegium as their own city states.
Unique Troops: Lucanian Skirmishers (?) Bruttian Infantry (?) Marsian Spearmen (?)
Significance: They might not even make it as sub-factions, hence the asterix. The only way these peoples would get represented is by their units. However I have an idea that even though Tarentum would be owned by the Greeks, that a Lucanian army could still pop up in the area? Or the Marsians could pop up randomly throughout Italy?
Alternate Campaign: No

Ligurians
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Genua
Unique Troops: Ligurian Infantry (?) Ligurian Cavalry (?) Ligurian Skirmshers (?)
Significance: The Ligurians were their own people, many ancient scholars place them around Massilia and even as far as Iberia. However they were located around Genua (their main city). They were used a lot as mercenaries for Carthage and Greek city states. They were finally subdued by the Romans in the 2nd century BC
Alternate Campaign: No

Veneti
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Patavium
Unique Troops: Veneti Hoplites (?) Veneti Skirmishers
Significance: Were around until at least the 2nd Punic War where they allied with Rome and sent troops to Rome to aid them when Hannibal was campaigning. In 302 BC they were attacked by a Spartan Naval force but they captured and destroyed their ships. They warred with Celtic peoples in the area and allied with the Cenomani. The Veneti are debated to be Illyrian but they could also be Italian, or even a mix.
Alternate Campaign: No

Croton
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Croton
Unique Troops: None
Significance: A greek city state, I believe Rome had occupied Croton a little before 280 BC due to Lucanian and Bruttian Raids. Also I believe this occupation sparked the conflict with Tarentum. Crotn defected to Hannibal and served as his base of operations during the 2nd Punic War.
Alternate Campaign: No

Mamertines at Rhegium
Sub-faction to: Rebels
Settlement(s): Rhegium
Unique Troops: Mamertine Infantry (?)
Significance: Another greek city state, it's Roman garrison defected to the Mamertines in 280 BC as the garrison consisted of mainly Campanian troops of similar stock to the Mamertines. Held off Bruttian raids, and Pyrrhus. Was captured by the Romans in the late 270's BC and the traitors were taken to Rome for trial and execution.
Alternate Campaign: No

Okay so there are all of the minor sub-factions that could possibly be encountered in the campaign. Notice how I put a '(?)' after most of the troops. That is because I still need to figure out what I want to do for units in the Italian AOR. I could do what RTR Platinum and just make 'Italian Troops' or I could go with the proposed units above.

Now onto the three Major sub-factions, that will be playable through alternate campaigns:

Insubres
Sub-faction to: Rebels, Gauls
Settlement(s): Medilanium, Accerae
Unique Troops: Insubres Infantry (?) Insubres Cavalry (?)
Significance: The Insubres will represent the Cisalpine Gauls who were not finally subdued until after the second Punic War.
Alternate Campaign: Yes, through the Gauls faction
Goals: Hold Northern Italian Provinces, defeat Romans

Boii
Sub-faction to: Rebels, Gauls
Settlements: Bononia, a settlement yet to be determined north of Pannonia
Unique Troops: Boii Infantry (?)
Significance: The Boii were an interesting faction who were split. Half being in nothern Italy and half being in south-eastern germany. They will be fun to play as in my mind. Right now Felsina is Bononia.
Alternate Campaign: Yes, through the Gauls faction
Goals: Hold Northern Italian and Pannonian Provinces, defeat Illyrians

Tarentum
Sub-faction to Rebels, Greeks
Settlements: Tarentum
Unique Troops: Tarentine Leukaspides (?), Tarentine Cavalry (?)
Significance: The strongest city state in Italy, the Tarentines began a War with Rome that drew Pyrrhus into Italy. They will be allied to Epirus and should aid in the fight with Rome. If successful they could turn on Epirus, take Rome, or venture to Sicily. It will be a tough campaign but worth the challenge.
Alternate Campaign: Yes, through the Greek faction
Goals: Take southern Italian Provinces, Syracuse, defeat faction Rome

So all of Italy is now represented, if anyone has any more suggestions for Italian peoples let them be known. However if you do, please use cities from the city list in the OP. I will move on to Sicily and Sardinia/Corsica later.