The Grand Who Chatter & Discussion Thread

[comrade_general]

You can't be sure, Wolfman.

[Jubal]

CG: I thought the same about the face!

SW: I am sure Capaldi will be very different to Smith, but I think I'm going to like him more. It'll be nice to have a Doctor who is a bit less touchy-feely, I reckon.

[Silver Wolf]

You can't be sure, Wolfman.

Oh, I can. Trust me.
I'm really picky when it comes to TV shows.
The only two TV shows I've liked so far are Angel and Doctor Who (11th Doctor only).

[Jubal]

I doubt I'll see the special on time anyway, my family will probably expect me to be doing family things. And once it's shown everyone will be spoiling the plot. :/

[comrade_general]

Just tell them TO SHUT UP DOCTOR WHO IS ON!!!!!!!!!!

[Jubal]

It's a review, now with spoilers!

Spoiler

THE GOOD
- "Don't panic! Just one question... do you have any idea how to fly this thing?" 
- On the obverse, "I will always remember when the Doctor was me" is a pretty neat ending line.
- The Christmas theme was developed well and a lot of it was pretty non-intrusive; snow, a town called Christmas, the time machine/turkey stuff were all quite fun.
- Handles was fun. I liked Handles. 
- The main plot points were pretty good, the storyline occasionally got a bit obscured by jumble but it was actually a really neat underlying concept.
- Some hole closures! At last! So we now know wherefore Silence Will Fall, who the Silence really are and why, wherefore the Crack In The Wall - which is a decent record for an hour of plot point closures.
- I'd have given Matt less prosthetics for the job, but of all the Doctors so far he's the one who is best at coming over as hundreds of years old and he did it exceptionally well. The cracker-pulling with Clara was for me by a mile the most touching/feelsy moment of the whole episode; age as a theme was done well.
- The explanation of the Silence was really very neat and I liked it a lot.
- Clara had some excellent moments. Clinging onto the outside of the TARDIS was pretty neat, and dealing with the really old Doctor was good too. "Help him change the future! Do it!" was also a particularly memorable line.

THE BAD
- The running nudity gag was really pointless and I didn't find it at all funny.
- Also the flirting with a sexy space Nun-cardinal. That was odd. Good character, generally, but the flirting I found a bit weird.
- Cheese scenes with Clara's family. I think having it interrupting the family Christmas was fine, and the Turkey in a time machine was fun, but the emotional scenes and continual returns to the dinner table just didn't add anything (and for tying up this many plot points in an hour the main plot could've done with more time).
- Limiting it to only one going back/finding the Doctor old would have boosted the impact, felt less powerful the second time despite that being the climax.
- Clara should steel up a bit. She spends too much time wielding sappy one-liners; I think it would have been more powerful for her emotional links if she'd simply pointed out to the Time Lords that the Doctor is their only chance of escape.  Whispering "If you love him..." had a lot less impact than the emotional desperation of the previous "Help him change the future!".
- The cameo for Amy was cute but actually got in the way of the Doctor's last words and cut the power out of them a bit I felt. I think leaving the scene up to Clara and the Doctor at least so far as speaking roles were concerned would have worked better.
- Starting Capaldi off with a zany kidneys line? We already played the "Ooh, new body bits" game with Smith.

[Silver Wolf]

Spoilers. 

Spoiler

I must say that I completely disagree with you.
I like all the parts you listed as bad (don't care about Capaldi, though), especially Amy. In my opinion, those scenes added so much power. After all, the Ponds were my favorite companions.

What I don't like is the 13th regeneration.
They gave the Doctor another regeneration cycle just like that? Here you go boy, have it? Not to mention that this time his regeneration destroyed  the half of the planet, except the bell tower on which he was standing on. How convenient. Also, Trenzalore was supposed to be a fixed point where it all ends, both for the Doctor and the TARDIS.

[Cuddly Khan]

Jubal, are you posting spoilers?

Please put in a spoiler.

[Scarlet]

My opinions:

Spoiler

Starting at the end, naturally, I did love Capaldi's last line but the kidney's thing was essentially done with 10 and 11. In other news, every cell in his body changes so of course new everything - always has been a ridiculous line. The oh-no-the-TARDIS-is-crashing has been done before but otherwise, I liked the rapid nature of the regeneration. Amy (Gillan) did not need to be there, useless waste of time, but the mini Amy cameo was nice.

I agree with Jubal on plot hole closure, the Silence explanation (the repeated hissing of confesssss just made me expect the Spanish Inquisition every time) and Handles.

I'm glad that the Weeping Angels got an appearance in but it annoyed me that they essentially just disappeared once they were no longer required.

Clara's YOUMUSTSAVEHIMFORLOVESIES was terrible, as ever, (she needs to grow a backbone (oh wait, this is Moffat)) and though clinging to the outside of the TARDIS was fun, it was also totally absurd that she could do so and suffer essentially no ill effects. Captain Jack tried to do it, which didn't exactly go well (he was kinda immortal anyway). What happened to staring into the time vortex sending people mad?

Little bit of an issue with previous Trenzalore if this happened - Massive TARDIS from where? If not really the Doctor's grave then where did the Doctor's grave-timestream come from?

Also.. explodiemagic regeneration "reset"? o.O

Generally, I was pretty underwhelmed by the episode. There was a good premise but there was so much crap around it and so much in the way of sickening solve-it-with-wuv, that I didn't really enjoy it.

tl;dr - They blew it all on the 50th and didn't leave much for this.

Khan - You're an idiot to come on this thread if you don't want spoilers

[comrade_general]

Spoiler

Clara's YOUMUSTSAVEHIMFORLOVESIES was terrible, as ever, (she needs to grow a backbone (oh wait, this is Moffat)) and though clinging to the outside of the TARDIS was fun, it was also totally absurd that she could do so and suffer essentially no ill effects. Captain Jack tried to do it, which didn't exactly go well (he was kinda immortal anyway). What happened to staring into the time vortex sending people mad?

She seemed to be staring at the TARDIS the whole time, and did look pretty f'ed up, but I'm sure the TARDIS was sure to keep her safe enough.

Spoiler

Little bit of an issue with previous Trenzalore if this happened - Massive TARDIS from where? If not really the Doctor's grave then where did the Doctor's grave-timestream come from?

I kept thinking the bell tower resembled the giant TARDIS and was sort of expecting something to happen with that.

But I thought it was all just wonderful, and I found it amusing that he doesn't like the color of his kidneys.

I love Clara. <3

[Silver Wolf]

- The cameo for Amy was cute but actually got in the way of the Doctor's last words and cut the power out of them a bit I felt. I think leaving the scene up to Clara and the Doctor at least so far as speaking roles were concerned would have worked better.

Anyways, this is a part where I disagree with you the most.
I think that this part was perfect. He said all that needs to be said and returned to one of his earliest memories.
Words have the tendency to ruin the moment. Even though Matt had the best speeches of them all.
Sometimes silence speaks volumes. Especially when it comes from a man who talks all the time. This was one of those times.

Also did anyone else notice the Rings of Akhaten theme ("Take my memories") in the background? Perfect.

Goodnight, raggedy man.
Wake up, Doctor.

[Jubal]

Spoiler

I think it depends on your attachment to Amy. I thought she was a good companion but I never developed a really strong attachment to her, whereas for me Clara is much more plot central. Also I feel that as an arc the power of Amy's leaving (which was done fantastically) would have been better exacerbated by her not appearing. It doesn't bug me much that said, it was done well but I really liked Eleven's last line and would have liked it to be hit with a bit more emphasis in the scene. Maybe doing it with little Amy holding his hand would have been best of both worlds.

I like not ending it at Trenzalore, the show needs to keep a sense of mystery and I felt the fixed death messed that up. I think we have to assume that graveyard Trenzalore is in a collapsed stream now... I agree more needed to be made of the second cycle, I'd have ditched some of Clara's family time in favour of a slightly longer, more charged negotiation between her and the Time Lords where she needs to make them realise how much they need the Doctor.

[Pentagathus]

The family watched this one and I paid some attention. It seemed pretty much the same as most episodes I've seen in the last few years.

[comrade_general]

Also did anyone else notice the Rings of Akhaten theme ("Take my memories") in the background? Perfect.

Yes! Therefore the whole song (the girl's singing) was in my head this morning. :')

[Silver Wolf]

Yes! Therefore the whole song (the girl's singing) was in my head this morning. :')

Mine to. It's epic.

- - -

And to be quite honest, I expected something different from Capaldi.
Something like : "Oh my fu**ing kidney." or "Can you fly this fu**ing piece of sh*t?".